Master Cylinder Cover

by **Eddie** » 26 Jan 2007 22:30

Can anyone please post a picture of the factory or factory style master cylinder cover. Front Disc/ Rear Drum A-36 Axle R/T 440 car, June 1969 Build date. Hamtramck, assembly plant, thank you. Eddie.

by **christer** » 04 Feb 2007 11:37

airfuelEddie wrote:Can anyone please post a picture of the factory or factory style master cylinder cover. Front Disc/ Rear Drum A-36 Axle R/T 440 car, June 1969 Build date. Hamtramck, assembly plant, thank you. Eddie.

I don´t know if this scan says it all, but at least it should be a little help on the way.

by **Eddie** » 05 Feb 2007 2:14

Thanks Christer, I appreciate that. My cover is symmetrical, meaning the reservoir "expansion" areas are the same. A pic. says a thousand words and I will include one shortly, however it "appears" to look like a drum brake cover, with both "circles" the same. I know that a disc reservoir is usually larger to compensate for piston depth changes resulting from pad depletion,(the brakes are worn out), but I have front disc rear drum. Did they use such a cover that "looks" like a drum brake master cover? Thanks for the help.

by **DAYLEY/CHALLENGER** » 05 Feb 2007 16:55

Mine is like the figure 2 and I have drum front and back. (1970)

by **Eddie** » 05 Feb 2007 17:56

Thanks for the reply Big Al, your description of drum/drum sounds correct. I went out in the garage, it's 8 degrees Far. and too cold too stay out but I got some pics.

by **Eddie** » 05 Feb 2007 17:58

Another, the car had a different cover on it prior to the resto. The R/T is a Hamtramck car, June 1969.

by **dave-r** » 05 Feb 2007 18:18

Sorry I have been too ill to comment on this until now but as far as I know the 1970 drum brake MC has the centre bolt and two reservoirs the same size. The disc version has a clip to hold the cover and the rear reservoir is bigger.

At least the restored cars I have seen are like this.

I looked into this years ago because my drum MC had been replaced with a disc version when I bought it.

I think both versions had a clip for the cover from 1971 but I am not sure about that.

by **Eddie** » 05 Feb 2007 18:24

Thanks for the reply Dave. I have seen this "style" used exclusively on Drum/Drum brake equipped cars, but never on 70 Challengers with Disc/Drum combo. I am going to leave it as the brakes work fine and I am not at in fear of the front reservoir running "dry" as I am a stickler for maintenance. I just wanted to know if anyone else has seen this style cover used on there 70 Challengers. Dianne is gonna get ya Dave! :s004:

by **DAYLEY/CHALLENGER** » 06 Feb 2007 3:49

AFE, why don't you clean that car up a bit.?? You can't have it dirty all the time!!!!!!!!!!!!! :s021:

by **472 R/T SE** » 06 Feb 2007 4:01

Here's one restored back to factory specs.

by **dave-r** » 06 Feb 2007 9:01

I am pretty sure it would not have come painted from the factory. :s021:

by **472 R/T SE** » 06 Feb 2007 17:01

The disc brake booster's with the master cylinder were painted all black as one unit at their factory has always been my understanding. The drum brake master is natural with the gold cap.

http://www.challengertaregistry.com/brakes.html

by **Eddie** » 06 Feb 2007 17:44

472 S/E, that's it! That's what was on the car prior to the resto. I still have the old master cylinder and cover. I explained to them that it was not correct. It works great and the old master was very rusty,(internally). Glad I kept the old part. I have the issue of MA where Brad Schroeder an Raybestos Brake engineer sets the record "straight" VERY helpful article on what is correct. The "thermometer" is an easy way to identify. ALL 70 Challenger Disc used this master. Thanks!!! :thumbsup:

CMB ROCKS!

by **Eddie** » 06 Feb 2007 17:50

airfuelEddie wrote:472 S/E, that's it! That's what was on the car prior to the resto. I still have the old master cylinder and cover. I explained to them that it was not correct. It works great and the old master was very rusty,(internally). Glad I kept the old part. I have the issue of MA where Brad Schroeder an Raybestos Brake engineer sets the record "straight" VERY helpful article on what is correct. The "thermometer" is an easy way to identify. ALL 70 Challenger Disc used this master. Thanks!!!

Big AL you are right the car and my mind are all filthy and in the gutter! Both need cleaned out!! :s003:

by **472 R/T SE** » 06 Feb 2007 20:02

Is that the issue where the author says that all these cars with yellow cad boosters and master lids' were all wrong? I remember reading something by a former employee of one of the brake outfits and that statement always stuck in my mind. I couldn't remember whether it was on the 'net or a rag article?

by **dave-r** » 06 Feb 2007 20:30

Well I learnt something there.

I knew the booster came black but thought all the masters were just natural. I don't remember seeing a restored one in books painted black. It just shows how many restored cars are not correct.

by **Eddie** » 06 Feb 2007 21:39

472 S/E, yep it's in an issue of MoPar Action magazine. Brad works at raybestos and the article compiles all important O.E.M. part#s as well as the correct assemblies. It doesnt mention,however, anything about the correct "finishes". Personally, I tried to have as many of the original parts restored rather than replaced but as the resto came to a close it came down to money versus correctness. A few times money won out. This is a perfect example for me. :frown:

by **christer** » 06 Feb 2007 21:57

"Master cylinders used on drum brakes were usually left unpainted. To dublicate the fresh-cast appearence, paint the assembly cast-iron gray. The cover and hold-down clamp on 1967-1970 models with drum brakes should have a cadmium gold appearence.

On models with disc brakes, the master assembly was usually painted semi-gloss black - both the body and the cover.

Most master cylinders on 1971-1974 models were painted semi-gloss black regardless of the brake type. Master cylinders were finished by the brake vendor, not the Chrysler assembly plant. Thus, there are differences in the finish, so it is possible that some master cylinders used with drum brakes were painted semi-gloss black, or a master cylinderu sed with disc brakes was left unfinished."

..by Paul Herd (I know :biggrin:

c´mon guys... give him a chance :!:

All of us are correct at once in a lifetime. :p:

)

by **472 R/T SE** » 06 Feb 2007 23:07

I think most times the reason the master's are left natural is they're one of the first things replaced on our cars over the years.
I have seen the big name restorers doing it this way as well. :?:

airfuelEddie, guilty as well. My Chally, while being restored by a Mopar Nationals Judge has a natural master cylinder. I hope to shoot some paint on it this spring.
I think I read that former employee's take on "correctness" over on Moparts, I wish I would have saved it tho. :oops:

by **Eddie** » 07 Feb 2007 2:19

Plus if you think about it, that master would rust right away and when the customer opened the hood it would look pretty ugly. Exhaust manifolds were even painted but burned right off in a few weeks. 472 S/E, I guess if I worried about that I would have to start replacing almost everything on the engine except the crankshaft and block! Everything else is different! Either lighter or stronger. :s003:

by **challysteve** » 09 Feb 2007 17:49

My 71chally has the original booster and master(borrowed pick from 472 r/t se). And according to the build sheet should have come with front discs but still has the factory fitted drums, i Was told that when the cars came down the track if they ran out of correct parts to keep production going they fitted what they had to hand is this true.

by **dave-r** » 09 Feb 2007 19:07

I don't think that would be true of parts like that. The only time I have seen evidence of anything like that was with the two types of vinyl roof.

It is true that sometimes mistakes were made. But it would be very rare.

by **472 R/T SE** » 09 Feb 2007 21:29

While I agree with the using whatever parts are available at the time, I find it awful strange the factory would short cut on something as important as brakes.
challysteve, can you tell by looking at the front end area if someone robbed the discs off years ago? Do the drums have any signs of red paint splattered on them, that is if it was coded for rallys or road wheels? Do the front drums have similar wear patterns, exterior appearance as the rear?

by **challysteve** » 10 Feb 2007 1:38

Thanks for your help,the 4matching drums on the car are the ones with the ribbs on (the old type)will have to take photo,and as far as anyone knows they were on the car from new. The car was checked and decoded by Tony Okisen in Feb 1996 and it was commented on then ,any help would be helpful very confusing

by **christer** » 10 Feb 2007 21:47

The master cylinder cover on the 173 mile Challenger T/A (a dvd with about 1200 pix can be bought from Alaskan_TA) is painted black. The master cylinder itself is almost entirely covered with surface rust except for a few spots where black paint is still left.

by **Eddie** » 21 Feb 2007 16:57

I informed the shop where my car was professionally restored and let them know of the Master cylinder conundrum. I even sent them the issue of MoPar Action Magazine that had the indepth article on MoPar Muscle car master cylinder identification and usage written by Brad Schroeder a Raybestos Brakes Engineer and enthusiast,(Challenger). Well, a few days went by and they e-mailed me to let me know that a complete numbers matching master cylinder and cover will be shipped to me free of charge! It will be restored/new and ready to bolt on! I already have the original in a box safely preserved but paid for the incorrect one thats on the car. This took me aback and I have to say that MCR went above and beyond to assist me. Great Guys to deal with. Thanks to you guys that gave me additional info. Eddie

by **dave-r** » 21 Feb 2007 17:33

Wow! That was good service. :thumbsup:

by **Eddie** » 21 Feb 2007 18:51

Yes it was Dave, and I already paid for everything and it was a "done" deal, they didnt have to do it. With all the horror stories about body shops on many Challenger boards on the web, it was great that this place doesnt leave it's customers "hanging". Very difficult to find reputable shops anymore. We pay with our hearts and they know it! Easy to take advantage of.

by **dave-r** » 21 Feb 2007 19:05

Well. They probably made some good money from you. So it is only fair really. Plus they probably realise that there is nothing better than a personal recommendation. It makes good business sense.

If only others realised that too!

by **Eddie** » 21 Feb 2007 22:02

Yes they did :shock:

It was ALL worth it! Every damned penny, I tell you Dave it's one of lifes simple pleasures, Mechanical Mayhem! :wink:

Re: Master Cylinder Cover