XV Motorsports Trip • 2 • The Dodge Challenger Message Board

by **dave-r** » 30 Aug 2009 18:03

Moparman1972 wrote:I am set on eliminating torsion bars and lightening the front, though, so a redesigned K frame with new spindles is what I'm going to have to work with.

Torsion bars eliminate a lot of the unsprung weight which is why Chryslers were always well known for their great suspension and ride. It seems a pity to me to spoil that by adding coils.

I also do not find the K-frame that heavy. It does a pretty good job.

My 440 Challenger has a pretty good weight balance even with the steel hood and iron heads About 55/45 when I had it weighed. But it is a pig at over 3800lbs (without fuel or driver).

by **Moparman1972** » 30 Aug 2009 21:31

Thanks GoldenBlack440. If I acted like a typical teenager, I'd be putting bigger rims on my Civic instead of talking to you guys about musclecars!

Dave, that's why Reilly Motorsports just came out with that K-frame that uses torsion bars in the K-member, to get the advantage of torsion bars with the improvements in suspension including rack and pinion, scrub radius, brakes, weight, etc.

The AlterKtion I know saves a little over 100 pounds over the stock K-frame, but most of that comes from the absence of a monster gearbox, I think. The XV saves a bit less because it is more bulky, and uses double-shear attachments for the lower A arm.

I have an extra Porsche transaxle sitting around, and if it wasnt rated for only 300 horsepower I'd be thinking real hard about making it work in my challenger. I dont think I've seen a rear transaxle E-body yet. Just IRS. Hmm.....that would do wonders for weight balancing.

Eddie, you're telling me you were made a moderator to do childish things?! Dave, what were you thinking?!

by **Eddie** » 30 Aug 2009 22:37

Just kiddin Dylan,,it's for the trip logistics.

by **Moparman1972** » 30 Aug 2009 23:08

airfuelEddie wrote:Just kiddin Dylan,,it's for the trip logistics.

Lies

Cat's outta the bag now.

by **dave-r** » 31 Aug 2009 10:06

The only tits on here are called Eddie and Wayne. They are a right pair. :lol:

by **RedRaven** » 31 Aug 2009 11:56

dave-r wrote:The only tits on here are called Eddie and Wayne. They are a right pair.

Yep thats correct Dave :lol:

.....you know they say that two tits and a knob make a great team or picture...............any guesses who the knob is guys??? :s024:

by **dave-r** » 31 Aug 2009 12:30

I deserved that. :nod:

by **RedRaven** » 31 Aug 2009 13:27

airfuelEddie wrote: my 'partner' Wayne

Eddie, you might want to re-phrase that one lad, just to ensure that folk understand that you mean partner as in gunslinger talk :nod:

and not the dutch meaning :shock:

!!

by **Eddie** » 31 Aug 2009 14:23

RedRaven wrote:
airfuelEddie wrote: my 'partner' Wayne

Eddie, you might want to re-phrase that one lad, just to ensure that folk understand that you mean partner as in gunslinger talk and not the dutch meaning !!

Oh, OK didnt know that. Dutch Fags are ;partners' huh,,dont tell them Cowboys from the deep south that. :lol:

How about Director, producer and the editor! :lol:

by **RedRaven** » 31 Aug 2009 14:32

airfuelEddie wrote: How about Director, producer and the editor!

Yep that sound pretty much like two tits and a knob!! :s024:

by **Eddie** » 31 Aug 2009 23:43

http://challenger.mpoli.fi/forum/viewto ... stallation Here ya go Dylan! This is of course Fabien's Challenger, I didnt know if you were aware of it. Very Nice!

by **fbernard** » 01 Sep 2009 9:47

Hey, back from vacation today and a lot of stuf to read.

I now have a little bit more experience with the suspension on my car, on the road and on the track.

Front setup :
The AlterKtion (coilover version) does have its own upper shock mount. From what I've read, Magnum Force has also added this feature to their tubular K-member.

As the torsion bar version seemed a good idea when I first saw it (torsion bars hidden in the frame tube, neat and tidy), I now believe the coilover version is probably better. I can change springs pretty easily, they don't cost a lot, I don't know if that would be as easy or cheap with the TBs (but then again, it might).

Rear setup :
Since I installed the Street-Lynx, I've tried it on several race tracks. It allows more aggressive cornering, but since it has absolutely no lateral play, if I don't enter the curve at the right gear, RPM and throttle position, the rear will stutter (that's with 35-series 19" tires, which also have no lateral play at all).

The good thing for me with this whole setup, is that the coil springs (front and rear) are the same, so I can play around with several sets.

The set of springs I have at the rear now is a 350 lb.inch (the 220 supplied with the kit were enough but I kept hitting high spots on the road, I need to make a new exhaust line), with 450s up front (a tad lighter than the 550 I had last year, but much better on the road). I'll probably go back to the 550s next year.

Cosmetically, I'll finish and add the front Transam spoiler and rear 'duck-tail' spoiler.

I just got some new rear wheels (I also started doing a bit of drag racing this year). 15x10 fit with room to spare, with 28.5x10 tires, and I could probably fit wider tires (29x11).
When I installed the wheels, I found out that the axle was not centered (a bit offset to the right). It took me 5 minutes turning the upper links to center it perfectly.

I love RMS products.

Although I have to admit, the Magnum Force setup with upper spring mounts would look good too...

There's also Control Freak, they do a copy of the AlterKtion, and most importantly a rear IRS setup (pricey : http://www.hotrodsusa.com/store/cf_irs.html )

If I was to rebuild a car now, and I wanted to have a more 'stock' look, I'd look at the Hotchkis parts : http://www.hotchkis.net/

by **Moparman1972** » 01 Sep 2009 11:00

Thank you for the update, Fabien!

I still would not touch Magnum Force. There is a lot more towards looks than engineering in that front end.

Control Freak is a good alternative, it looks like.

I was actually looking at IRS swaps yesterday, and came across the corvette C5 transaxle. 6 speed standard, aluminum cradle, $2000 max for the entire rear end and torque tube. Cheaper than a 5 speed and a street lynx by far. I am going over to a buddie's who has one this weekend to take some measurements and see how feasible a swap would be.

by **Moparman1972** » 08 Sep 2009 13:11

I actually found a thread on www.cuda-challenger.com where a guy is putting a C5 suspension under his Chally! It is a serious show car and uses both the C5 front and rear suspension. I am looking to only use the rear.

He has some serious work into the chassis with this car. I will have to think very hard about going this route rather than buying a five speed and making/buying a 3 link. The price would probably average out in the long run, what with all the fabrication that is going to be necessary for the IRS. But oh, the benefits!

(Will post the link later, my firewall at work prevents me from getting to cuda-challenger to find the thread)

by **fbernard** » 08 Sep 2009 13:42

Moparman1972 wrote:I actually found a thread on www.cuda-challenger.com where a guy is putting a C5 suspension under his Chally! It is a serious show car and uses both the C5 front and rear suspension. I am looking to only use the rear.

He has some serious work into the chassis with this car.

If that is the one, yes, there's some serious work and a lot of hours in it!!!

by **Moparman1972** » 08 Sep 2009 16:13

Yessir, that's the one!

Detachable cradle, made the upper arms adjustable instead of the lower ones, making his own torque tube....lots and lots of hours.

by **Moparman1972** » 08 Nov 2009 16:23

Just a heads-up, I got an email from XV saying that they have a big announcement in the next few weeks. Judging by the hints they are throwing out, they are about to greatly reduce the price of their Level II B and E body suspension. I hope that I'll be able to afford it now! :s008:

They're also looking for a nice A-Body to outfit with their first A-body Level II suspension. This is something they have been promising for years. So anyone who has an A body they want to trailer to new york, XV is saying they will put it on at a greatly reduced price and with no labor charges.

by **Moparman1972** » 17 Nov 2009 2:58

I got an email from XV today. They reduced the price! 5500 for the level II front end. Took some of the billet flash off of it and offered plain steel components instead.

Excuse me while I count my pennies... :s023:

by **dave-r** » 03 Dec 2009 16:59

Actually. I have been looking into the Hotchkis suspension stuff and I am REALLY impressed with it.

http://www.hotchkis.net/search.html?Mak ... orm=Search

I am still dead set against removing the stock K-Frame on Mopars except when needed on big block Darts for example.

And I am 100% against replacing the torsion bar front suspension with coils. :disbelief:

by **Moparman1972** » 03 Dec 2009 18:19

That looks like really professional stuff!

By the way Dave, not sure if I mentioned it before, but have you read about Reilly Motorsports' new front suspension that uses torsion bars put sideways in the crossmember rather than coilovers? I don't know if that retains all of the benefits of torsion bars, but it sure is an interesting idea.

by **dave-r** » 03 Dec 2009 18:27

No that was new to me. And interesing. I will look that up on the firms time tomorrow. :wink:

by **dave-r** » 03 Dec 2009 18:28

Actually didn't the later Mopars have a torsion bar system llike that?

by **fbernard** » 03 Dec 2009 19:56

Moparman1972 wrote:By the way Dave, not sure if I mentioned it before, but have you read about Reilly Motorsports' new front suspension that uses torsion bars put sideways in the crossmember rather than coilovers?

We talked about that somewhere on here before. For me one of the advantages of the RMS setup is the ease of changing coil springs (and also car height adjustments without changing geometry - which may also be the case with the RMS bar setup).
I suppose the bars can be changed too, But I would suspect those bars of being a mildly exotic item (they're pretty short bars), compared to the coils which can be found easily.

I've been looking at Hotchkis stuff for my convertible, and it sure looks like good engineering, but the price of some parts seem to reach a little into into 'XV territory'...

by **dave-r** » 03 Dec 2009 20:35

Yeah you are talking $1400 for all the trick front suspension parts before you even start on the torsion and sway bars etc.

by **Moparman1972** » 03 Dec 2009 21:38

dave-r wrote:Actually didn't the later Mopars have a torsion bar system llike that?

Never heard of it? It would be interesting to know.

by **dave-r** » 04 Dec 2009 8:21

I have a feeling it was the small FWD cars of the late 70s Early 80s??

Or is my mind playing tricks?

It was a very long time ago!

I think they had the bar or bars going across the front of the car and levers attached them to the LCAs.