V8 and Hemi K-frames

by **dave-r** » 12 Nov 2007 10:17

OK I want a difinitive answer to this question.

I have always believed that the only difference between a normal V8 K-frame and the Hemi K-frame (in the E-body) was a skid plate welded on the bottom. Hence the different part number.

However I do know that many 440 cars got this too.

However two Hemi owners are telling me the Hemi K-frames are always different. No exceptions.

Can someone please explain to me what the difference is if any?

I do know the mounts are different. Take that as excepted.

by **fbernard** » 12 Nov 2007 12:23

dave-r wrote:OK I want a difinitive answer to this question.

I have always believed that the only difference between a normal V8 K-frame and the Hemi K-frame (in the E-body) was a skid plate welded on the bottom. Hence the different part number.

However I do know that many 440 cars got this too.

However two Hemi owners are telling me the Hemi K-frames are always different. No exceptions.

Can someone please explain to me what the difference is if any?

I do know the mounts are different. Take that as excepted.

I've seen one (brand new from the good old days, never used) a few months ago.
Apart from a huge difference in the driver-side engine mount bracket (and the skid plate), there's nothing else I noticed.

Come to think of it, the only uses for a K-frame are :
- connecting the two frame rails together,
- positioning and holding the engine,
- positioning and holding the steering box and idler arm,
- holding the sway bar.

None of that is any different from one car to another, once you've ruled out the engine mount difference.

I could have some pics taken of this K-member if you're interested.

by **dave-r** » 12 Nov 2007 13:07

I would be VERY interested.

I am told the difference is in the way the engine mount attaches to the K-frame.

the passenger side mounting point on the hemi frame is vastley different than a wedge frame, the frame appears bassicaly flat on that side and the engine mount sits straight down on it, the drivers side is different as well again bolts sideways or down but not through like the wedge

by **dave-r** » 12 Nov 2007 13:16

fbernard wrote:I've seen one (brand new from the good old days, never used) a few months ago.
Apart from a huge difference in the driver-side engine mount bracket (and the skid plate), there's nothing else I noticed.

Is that what you meant? The engine mount attaches differently to the K-frame? Was the a E-body K-frame for sure?

by **dave-r** » 12 Nov 2007 13:42

Is this a Hemi Challenger K-frame?

by **RedRaven** » 12 Nov 2007 13:50

Im all ears fellas keep posting...

by **fal308** » 12 Nov 2007 19:30

From Schumacher Creative, B & E body Hemi

by **christer** » 12 Nov 2007 20:05

I am trying to proof this the other way around (or maybe I just get myself mixed-up?)

Question: Would the product below be needed if both k-members looked the same? I presume that the answer is No. In other words there are two different k-members.

From the ad: A set of Shumacher bolt in Hemi conversion motor mounts. These mounts adapt the Hemi to the stock K member without any modifications. These are brand new and in the box. They are made as a direct bolt in for the Cuda and Challenger but could be used on others. I have used these mounts on a Hemi and then fabricated additional mounts for the K member.

by **christer** » 12 Nov 2007 20:10

About the skid plate: Did all of the Hemi´s and the 440 six pack engines get a large oil pan? Did the 440-4 get a small oil pan? All cars with a large oil pan got the skid-plate, right?

by **dave-r** » 12 Nov 2007 20:47

All 426 and 440s with the large oil pan got the skid plate.

I am not sure if all the 440s got the big oil pan or not (mine did) or if any 383s got it. I suspect not on the 383.

by **Eddie** » 12 Nov 2007 20:50

Christer: I think some 440 4v got 5 qt. pans as opposed to the 6 qt. Hemi/Sixpack oil pan. Fabian: you missed the Strut Rods but great description regardless. Dave: other than the differences you already pointed out I am pretty sure the answer is they are the same as suggested by Mr. Bernhard :thumbsup:

In fact doesnt Newcombs Hemispherical "make" re-popped or modified "hemi K members" with the correct bracket/ mounts and skid plate using existing K-member 'cores'?

by **Eddie** » 13 Nov 2007 0:38

I e-mailed Michael Schumacher asking what Dave wants to know. He replied what Dave and Fabian proposed: "The only difference is the mount perches and the skid plate. All V-8 K -Members are the same other than that." I think those 2 guys Dave was talking about are misinformed :thumbsup:

by **christer** » 13 Nov 2007 5:32

From another thread:

JackT wrote:The Hemi suspension that came with Track Pack and Super Track Pack cars included the torque boxes and heavier rear springs. One opinion is the the 1970 K-frame with the skid plate bcame with the Super Cooling Package to protect the larger (7 qt.) capacity oil pan, hence it is found on the majority of the 440 Challengers (notice the lack of the definitive word "all") and I agree with that opinion.

by **christer** » 13 Nov 2007 5:37

From another thread:

JackT wrote:Since big blocks in E-bodies became a thing of the past in 1972, we can refer to the 1970 and 1971 K-frames and their part numbers and see what fit what:

1970: 225CI, Part #2962010; 318, 340, 383 & 440CI, Part #3466477; 426, Part #2962014
1971: 198 & 225CI, Part #3583070; 318, 340, 383 & 440CI, Part #3583074; 426CI, Part #3583076

As far as I know, the K-frames for the Challengers and the Barracuda E-bodies were the same. It seems your 440 should fit the 73 Cuda small block K-frame, but you might want to check with Schumacher Creative Services. 206/364-7151.

by **christer** » 13 Nov 2007 5:39

christer wrote:I am trying to proof this the other way around (or maybe I just get myself mixed-up?)

Question: Would the product below be needed if both k-members looked the same? I presume that the answer is No. In other words there are two different k-members.

From the ad: A set of Shumacher bolt in Hemi conversion motor mounts. These mounts adapt the Hemi to the stock K member without any modifications. These are brand new and in the box. They are made as a direct bolt in for the Cuda and Challenger but could be used on others. I have used these mounts on a Hemi and then fabricated additional mounts for the K member.

Maybe all of that was crap but at least I gave it a try.... :lol2:

by **christer** » 13 Nov 2007 5:41

I have learned something new today: There is a stamped coin up in front of the k-frame saying what part number it is.
#77 (the last two digits) like in the pic means 1970: 318, 340, 383 & 440CI, Part #3466477.
Cool, eh? Did you know that?

.....or was I the last to know? :s001:

by **patrick** » 13 Nov 2007 6:20

RedRaven wrote:Im all ears fellas keep posting...

You just wanted to show us your Avatar again, Wayne. :mrgreen:

by **RedRaven** » 13 Nov 2007 8:39

patrick wrote:
RedRaven wrote:Im all ears fellas keep posting...
You just wanted to show us your Avatar again, Wayne.

No seriously...I am all ears, I asked this question on another board and I think I opened a can of worms..Dave went at it with some guys from the UK....I was scared!! :tears:

by **dave-r** » 13 Nov 2007 8:44

Hey Red. Getting the facts from some of these guys is like getting blood from a stone I tell you.
They will often say there are differences with Hemi cars but rarely will say exactly what they are.
I guess it is to protect the breed.

by **RedRaven** » 13 Nov 2007 8:50

dave-r wrote:Hey Red. Getting the facts from some of these guys is like getting blood from a stone I tell you.
They will often say there are differences with Hemi cars but rarely will say exactly what they are.
I guess it is to protect the breed.

Well I understand they have vast knowledge on the cars but, to say thats the way it is cause I say so is a bit kiddish...If someone wants to prove a point then show evidence to prove it other that hearsay m'lord!!

by **christer** » 13 Nov 2007 9:47

From: http://www.angelfire.com/id/newssection/mopar.html :

The easiest way to tell the difference between the Hemi and the regular V8 k-frame is that the Hemi mounting brackets differ from side to side, and the regular V8 frame has similar mounts on both sides. The Hemi`s unique motor mounts are due to the tight placement of the factory exhaust manifolds. The Hemi has no mounting ears on the side of the block. Instead, the mounts bolt right into the side of the block.

Mystery solved?

by **dave-r** » 13 Nov 2007 11:00

Yeah I think we have it all worked out now. :thumbsup:

by **christer** » 13 Nov 2007 11:07

Time for a beer! :s018:

by **RedRaven** » 13 Nov 2007 11:22

christer wrote:Time for a beer!

And the dancing girls...some swedish one....just like these.....

Got ya Dave!!! :mrgreen:

by **RedRaven** » 13 Nov 2007 20:18

I have come in to possesion of a Hemi K member and I have a K member on my 383... So I will take photos and we will see what the story is in regards to this!!

Re: V8 and Hemi K-frames

Re: V8 and Hemi K-frames