CAM SPECS expert please! • The Dodge Challenger Message Board

by **Goldenblack440** » 20 Oct 2007 10:48

HI, can anyone versed in camshaft specs and appliction tell me what they think of this combo?

SPECS of the Cam i am thinking of using: Erson Hi-Flow Hydraulic, Advertised Rev range: 2700-5700, 0.472/0.472 lift, Duration at 0.050": 228, Advertised Duration: 296, Centreline 108 degrees, 0 advance.

CAR: 73 Challenger slapstick auto

ENGINE/BOX/DIFF: Nothing too special about the engine: Freshened 360 + 30, new standard late model J heads but unmodified, new CompCams springs, single with damper (120 seat, 320 open), standard exh manifolds with twin system and balance pipe, Edelbrock Torquer single plane, 4 barrel carby, probably a Thermo quad (there's nothing wrong with these). TF904, rebuilt with modded valve body, fresh "Morestall" converter (2500 stall), 3.23 rear (8 3/4" diff)

WHEELS: 14 inch rims

Because i am selling the car as a running, registered vehicle, this is a budget build up with parts i already have. The cam is old technology but if i don't use it now it will never be used. I'm a bit worried about the large weight and the sort of take-off grunt the cam will be able to deliver.

Any opinions on how it will go in this car? I know it will never run 13's at the drags but i'd like a perky takeoff, not a boggy one. Thanks for any advice. PS, i won't be fitting extractors or doing any other engine work.

by **dave-r** » 20 Oct 2007 11:08

Install it 3 degrees advanced. It will be OK. Just make sure you use a degree wheel to check it is right.

Use this to give you some idea of how the cam will effect the engine. If you have the stock specs you can compare.

http://challenger.mpoli.fi/the.dodge.ch ... o_2000.exe

by **Eddie** » 20 Oct 2007 12:08

The Thermoquad is great, with the rear gear being a 3.23, the cam has a lot of duration and a single plane with skinny runners,(torquer), I think it's gonna 'bog' pretty bad unless you can get that Thermoquad tuned right. Are you sure the duration@.050 is right? with 296 total it doesnt sound correct at .050 228. That would be a very slow ramp speed,(it should be at least 82%), the older MoPar Performance purple shaft cams are 85% cams. 108 centers are pretty tight and for street usage a bit much, 110 would be much better, The newer fast ramp designs are even higher than 85%. Erson makes excellent products!

by **Goldenblack440** » 22 Oct 2007 13:39

Thanks for feedback guys. Re the durations- yes they are a large way apart but that was what the website said, but i'll check again. I have just been reading Larry Shephard's "How to Hot Rod yur SB Mopar" and he describes the difference between Advertised Duration and Dur at 0.050. Advertised, is what the manufacturer says and apparently there are so many different benchmarks for setting duration they had to try and come up with a standard, hence Dur @ 50. Also, i have been advised to use a dual plane instead of the single plane for better throttle response and low-down torque. The 360 is an inherently torquey engine anyway (compared to the 318) and plus, don't forget i am using a 904 trans and converter, the latter also having just been modded for "moreStall"- about 2500-2600 and the smaller converter winds up qucker tha the 727 converter, so i'm hoping these factors will mop up the bog! The Thermoquad has very small primaries- again good for throttle response.

And i'll dial the cam in at 3 degrees advance, as Dave recommends- thanks again.

by **Eddie** » 22 Oct 2007 21:25

Goldenblack440 wrote:Thanks for feedback guys. Re the durations- yes they are a large way apart but that was what the website said, but i'll check again. I have just been reading Larry Shephard's "How to Hot Rod yur SB Mopar" and he describes the difference between Advertised Duration and Dur at 0.050. Advertised, is what the manufacturer says and apparently there are so many different benchmarks for setting duration they had to try and come up with a standard, hence Dur @ 50. Also, i have been advised to use a dual plane instead of the single plane for better throttle response and low-down torque. The 360 is an inherently torquey engine anyway (compared to the 318) and plus, don't forget i am using a 904 trans and converter, the latter also having just been modded for "moreStall"- about 2500-2600 and the smaller converter winds up qucker tha the 727 converter, so i'm hoping these factors will mop up the bog! The Thermoquad has very small primaries- again good for throttle response.

And i'll dial the cam in at 3 degrees advance, as Dave recommends- thanks again.

Cool GoldenBack sounds like you know what you're doing and how to get it! Along with Daves as usual excellent advice it should put a smile on any potential buyer, good luck in selling it, BTW you mean this book? This along with Chuck Senator's B/RB books are both very nice additions to any MoPar Library! :mrgreen:

by **Goldenblack440** » 23 Oct 2007 9:49

Yep, that's the exact one! and i also have Chuck Senatore's book as well- its excellent.

by **Eddie** » 23 Oct 2007 13:30

I met a MoPar Perf. Engineer at (of all places) the Indy 500 last year who used to work with Dick Landy, Akron Arlen Vanke, Dave Koffel and his very good friend Larry Shepard who had retired a few years ago. They had him away from everyone else just sitting by himself. I "passed" on AJ Foyt to approach this guy instead and asked for his autograph and a picture. Probably the only one tp do so. :s004:

by **Goldenblack440** » 25 Oct 2007 14:55

Is that what they do with old engineers? The poor fellow sure looks lonely! Hope you cheered him up a bit? DId he tell you any fascinating stories? What department was he working in for Mother Mopar?

by **Goldenblack440** » 25 Oct 2007 15:27

Dave, tried your Desktop Dyno- thanks- it works ok- seems to give an optimistic view though. Reckons i will have a good strong torque curve from 2000rpm. Only way is to slot the bumpstick in i suppose.

by **dave-r** » 25 Oct 2007 15:41

I usually find it is on the pessimistic side with the Mopar engines.

See what you think when it is running.

by **Eddie** » 25 Oct 2007 15:58

Goldenblack440 wrote:Is that what they do with old engineers? The poor fellow sure looks lonely! Hope you cheered him up a bit? DId he tell you any fascinating stories? What department was he working in for Mother Mopar?

My sister offered him a shot of whiskey. It was only 41 degrees out that chilly windy day. He didnt have any stories and it was very noisy out. They had the poor fellow so far away from everyone and he was selling Indy Hats and probably didnt represent ma mopar. :mrgreen:

by **Goldenblack440** » 26 Oct 2007 16:58

dave-r wrote:I usually find it is on the pessimistic side with the Mopar engines.

i certainly hope so! Mopar engines are generally underrated by most people who have never owned one. BTW, do you really think a dual plane (eg Edelbrock performr) would make much difference to driveability/low down torque with this cam i am using compared to the Edel Torker 360 single plane? I mean, they wouldn't (or shouldn't) call it "Torker" for nothing...?

by **dave-r** » 26 Oct 2007 19:55

A dual plane will more more low end torque and better throttle response (sacrificing some high rpm HP) due to the better signal to the carb and faster airflow through each carb barrel.