Dropped spindles • The Dodge Challenger Message Board

by **1208** » 12 Nov 2005 17:26

Does anyone make dropped spindles for a challenger? I'm trying to lower the front without losing my spring rate. Any other way to drop the front for a g-machine type look?

by **dave-r** » 12 Nov 2005 18:19

Dropping the front height with the standard adjustment has no effect on the spring rate at all.

So the simple answer is no you can't get dropped spindles because it would be pointless. :wink:

by **1208** » 12 Nov 2005 19:23

Thank you, I am a little new to the dodge ranks, and I will try to not ask any more dumb questions :oops:

by **dave-r** » 12 Nov 2005 19:48

It wasn't a dumb question! You are just not used to torsion bar suspension.

by **LITEMUP** » 14 Nov 2005 16:23

fat man fabrications has 2 inch dropped spindles. they're 3/8ths of an inch taller for the upper ball joint but after much debate i do not believe that this is an issue. dave, you might have another opinion but the main point i was told on why it would not be a big deal is because the race cars enjoy the height change as well because of better handling conditions. here is a post to explain it a bit i believe. http://www.bigblockdart.com/tech/spindles.shtml that is for the stock f, m, and j body cars i think, so it does not specifically argue the point of fat man fab's spindle's. however, here is the link to their website and if you scroll down to the bottom they claim they are specifically for volare/cordoba front ends which are included in the discussion on the bigblockdart website. http://www.fatmanfab.com/06page17.htm whadda ya guys think?

by **dave-r** » 14 Nov 2005 16:51

I only had time for a VERY quick look at that link. I see what they are saying but.....

I really don't like changing the basic steering geometry. Extra caster is not as important as most people seem to preach. You don't need a huge amount either for drag racing or good handling street car and there are better ways to get a bit more if needed.

If we were talking light weight Euro type car with R&P steering that might be different. But a two ton tank with Mopar steering is not going to see much improvement in my opinion.

What is important are things like bump steer and toe changes through the suspension movement. This swap will increase toe changes which is a slight disadvantage. Not a critical one though.

However I don't agree that changing to those spindles will offer any measurable advantage over the stock geometry.

I think this is a case of change for change's sake. But what it does offer is a cheap way of adding disc brakes to a car if you can't find the better 1973-4 E and A body versions.

You have to also remember that when they talk about "handling" on BB Dart dot com they tend to mean on the drag strip and going slowly to the town centre and back on a saturday night. They do not on the whole take into account driving around corners at any real speed or having to make sharp manouvers at speed to avoid an accident.

I value my life more than that.

But i will read it again and maybe do some sums on it if I can find my old notes. It is an interesting subject. It is also a can of worms.

by **dave-r** » 15 Nov 2005 9:54

OK I read that again. Here are my thoughts.

First of all dropping the stock suspension height is a simple and harmless thing to do as long as the rear height is dropped in proportion as well. It will not alter the geometry and will in fact lower the roll center of the front suspension which is a good thing and why race cars are lowered.

A dropped spindle without any other changes (ignor the fact they are taller for a moment) will raise the roll center which is a bad thing for handling.

Now looking at the car from the front imagine a line drawn through the UCA and another through the LCA.

The two arms are not parallel. A line drawn through each arm will intersect at a point known as the Insantaneous Center. The further away this intersection point is the fewer changes you will have to the wheel alignment as the suspension moves up and down.

By fitting a taller steering knuckle you bring the instantaneous center closer. This will increase the tendancy for the camber and toe-in of the wheel to change with movement. It will also raise the roll center again.

So in a nutshell it is a pointless and stupid thing to do.

If you want to lower the car use the stock height adjuster. If you want more caster fit an aftermarket UCA or offset UCA bushes.

by **LITEMUP** » 20 Mar 2006 3:35

i was on moparts the other day and somebody stated Firm Feel having came up with different lower control arms to drop the front. i took it upon myself to email firm feel and ask them about their set up. they didn't inform me much of how it was designed, but i asked him for a picture, and htis is what he sent me. just thought i'd pass it on to you....come up w/ your own conclusion i guess. actually, i think would like to hear some discussion about them.

by **dave-r** » 20 Mar 2006 8:58

Well. Refering to my comments above, as long as the Insantaneous Center is not moved closer then it will be alright.

Do thay say why this may be a good idea?

I guess the idea here is to lower the car without loosing any suspension travel??

I would say that if lowering the car for handling you would be using stiffer springs as well. So you wouldn't need as much suspension travel.

I just don't get the point. Mopars are good handling cars with the stock suspension set up right.

I can also comment on Firm Feel.

They once sold me longer pitman and idler arms to give my Firm Feel power steering box I also bought from them a faster ratio.

The power steering box had as much play in the steering as my old unit.
The longer arms were not indexed correctly (I believe they are now) so I had to cut and shorten one track rod to center the steering.

Now you tell me if that would make my car handle better or not?

I think they just sell people what they want. Not what they need.

by **LITEMUP** » 20 Mar 2006 15:12

actually that is wierd about your box. my first one got TOTALLY messed up. they finally agreed to take it back and gave me their sincerest apologies when they took the box apart and the worm gear had been eaten up for some reason. they sent me another box and i have really enjoyed it, but the first one was crap.

no they didnt' give me much info on them at all. i'd like to know about them but they seemed to be pretty busy getting ready for the mopar show in vegas this weekend. i will inquire more and let you know what i get.

dave, did u keep your pitman arm you got from them? or did you go back to stock?

by **dave-r** » 20 Mar 2006 15:35

I still have the pitman/idler arm. In a bucket of other crap bits in my shed.

I did a deal with them in the end. I swapped the firm feel power steering box for one of their fast ratio manual steering boxes plus a new stock length pitman and idler arm. I did have to source a cheap manual box core for them as part of the deal.