Two different 440's? • The Dodge Challenger Message Board

by **Marc Durocher (Madmarc)** » 14 Sep 2002 18:36

i think it was a chilton that i was reading but it said that there were two different 440 engines. one put out 335 horsepower and the other pushed 370 (4 barrel). anybody know how i could find out if my engine were either? everything on the two engines was the same except HP and torque. also, what is the difference between the '68 440 and the '69-'71 440?

by **Alex (Alex)** » 14 Sep 2002 21:08

As far as I am aware, the only different spec on 440's were the 4bbl had 375 advertised hp, and the 440+6 had 395 in 70 and 390 in 71

68 through 71 were basically the same

by **Dave-R (Roppa440)** » 15 Sep 2002 8:15

There were a few differences in con rods from engine to engine but power ratings were the same except that during the 1970s they started measuring horsepower differently so the numbers were lower. There are no major differences 1968 to 1971.

The 1967 had a different type of head. The 1969 1/2 6-pack 440 was different to the 1970-on 6-pack.

There are numbers stamped into the flat spot to the right of the distributor that tell you the spec of your engine.

by **Jack T (Jackt)** » 16 Sep 2002 2:09

As I understand the different 440's, a 440 Magnum would have 440 HP on the stamp pad to the right of the distributor. The station wagon/sedan 440 would not have the HP (High Performance) stamp. The compression ratios were different as well. The 440 was 9.5 to 1, the 440 HP was 9.7 to 1 and the 440 HP six-pack was 10.5 to 1. The stroke was the same in all three engines so the differences came from the pistons and in the case of the six pack the connecting rods were heavier and the harmonic balancer was special as well because of the rod weight. Marc, if yours is a four barrel engine, look on the stamp pad for the HP to see which engine you have.

by **Dave-R (Roppa440)** » 16 Sep 2002 7:57

Was the wagon/sedan 440 a two barrel Jack?

by **Jim Wilson (Jim)** » 16 Sep 2002 8:58

Never was a 440 two barrel Dave!

by **Dave-R (Roppa440)** » 16 Sep 2002 9:59

That's what I thought Jim but two of the above posts seemed to suggest that so I thought I would ask.

In my haste (it has been a busy weekend!) I didn't make myself completely clear in my post. I was talking about 440s offered in mopar muscle cars as I thought this what Marc was refering to.

All these had the same heads, cam and 9.7:1 compression pistons right through 1968-71 which was the time scale Marc was asking about. Reading his post again I am not sure exactly what he meant. But I took it that he was maybe refering to the different power ratings from year to year on the performance 440.

And of course when talking about 6-pack 440s there are many differences and that is why I only mentioned them in passing as Marc was only asking about 4bbl 440s. The 440s fitted to other non-muscle cars, trucks, motor homes I know little about except a little on how to identify them.

by **Jim Wilson (Jim)** » 16 Sep 2002 10:41

Generally speaking 440's of the same year are pretty much the same. The same pistons, heads etc. The difference between low perf and hi perf engines was in the cam, carb, distributor curve, and exhaust system only.

Until 1970 that is. Then the hi perf engines got the big rods.

Hi perf 440's got a Carter carb, while lo perf 440's usually came with a Holley. Except six packs of course. As you say, the six pack engines have a lot more differences.

by **Dave-R (Roppa440)** » 16 Sep 2002 11:35

Thanks Jim. Nice photo of you and your girlfriend with your HemiCuda in Classic American magazine BTW.

by **Jim Wilson (Jim)** » 16 Sep 2002 14:07

Hi David. 'Haven't seen Classic American yet. 'Can't wait to see the photo!

by **Marc Durocher (Madmarc)** » 16 Sep 2002 22:20

aww...not the magnum. damn, had my hopes up. lol, but this is what the stamp does say:

D440
R483
11 14HP 2

maybe you can read that for me. we were already told that it was a '68 engine but i cannot find anything online that confirms what it is and where it's from. maybe my eyes passed over something.

thanks for all the posts by the way.

by **Jack T (Jackt)** » 17 Sep 2002 1:50

The HP2 makes it a Magnum

by **Marc Durocher (Madmarc)** » 17 Sep 2002 3:01

whoah. i didnt expect that. could you give me some specs on the differencebetween the regular 440 and the magnum or just a website that can tell me?

thanks for checking it out,
Marc

by **Dave-R (Roppa440)** » 17 Sep 2002 7:29

Is there a VIN stamped into a pad between the passenger side engine mount and the oil pan?

by **Jim Wilson (Jim)** » 17 Sep 2002 8:38

D440 is 1968 model year 440.

Not sure what R483 is?
Could it be the 483rd engine built at the engine assembly plant on 14th November 1967?

11 14 is 14th November 1967

HP2 is High Perf (Magnum engine) built on the 2nd shift.

Any advance on that?

by **Jim Wilson (Jim)** » 17 Sep 2002 9:03

'Still thinking about that R483?

I reckon the R probably means Regular gas (as opposed to P for Premium gas) This is suprising though, considering this is an HP motor.

by **Dave-R (Roppa440)** » 17 Sep 2002 9:32

Someone once told me HP was the Magnum engine with the standard rods and HP2 the Magnum engine with the "six pack rods" and external balance.

I have a note somewhere of when they started putting the VIN on the right side engine block. Can't remember when that was off the top of my head. It would be interesting to know what car this came out of.

by **Alex (Alex)** » 17 Sep 2002 10:15

2 is second shift, nothing else

by **Alex (Alex)** » 17 Sep 2002 10:17

D is probably an 8 making it a 68 motor

by **Alex (Alex)** » 17 Sep 2002 10:19

R means Passenger car engine

by **Jim Wilson (Jim)** » 17 Sep 2002 10:21

Hi David.
I've heard that too. I must admit most 1970 Hi-perf 440's do have HP2 on the block. Hmmm. What does anyone else think?

I believe it wasn't until 1969 that part of the VIN was stamped on the RH side pan rail on the block. But even then it was only ever a part of the VIN: e.g. B0456789 (note; year and assy plant characters reversed)

by **Alex (Alex)** » 17 Sep 2002 10:24

483 needs checking coz there is no plant code showing.

K = Toluca
M= Mound Road
T = Trenton
W = Windsor

by **Dave-R (Roppa440)** » 17 Sep 2002 10:45

Damn! I forgot it was only the last eight digits. 1969 model year they started stamping it on the block? So I maybe had 1968 in my head for that reason. That's my story and I am sticking to it!

by **Jim Wilson (Jim)** » 17 Sep 2002 13:13

Hi Alex.

D is 1968 model year.

I am quite sure R does not mean passenger car engine. It means Regular gas.

There is no engine plant code on this engine.
483 probably is the sequential engine build number for that day, - on the 2nd shift.

by **Alex (Alex)** » 17 Sep 2002 15:54

According to the Mopar engine manual, "R" does indeed mean pass car motor, apposed to "S" for special, LC or low compression, would mean regular gas, no way would a hp engine use regular gas

by **Jim Wilson (Jim)** » 17 Sep 2002 16:02

That's what puzzles me Alex.
The rest of the world is quiet on this one! Anyone else like to comment on this?
Why not ask on Moparts?

by **Alex (Alex)** » 17 Sep 2002 16:14

Ask what 483 means? maybe, you should sign oop on there, it's easy and quick, loads of info

by **Dave-R (Roppa440)** » 17 Sep 2002 17:37

Right. I am home now and have access to my books etc.

Well. According to Paul Herd 'R' was sometimes used to indicate 0.001-inch undersize rod bearings. The numbers after it indicate which cylinders. If no number after then they were all undersize. If RX then all were 0.010 undersize.

If I find anything else I will let you know.

by **Alex (Alex)** » 17 Sep 2002 17:51

Mmmm that's interesting, the Mopar book says 001 under were noted by a maltese cross!

by **Dave-R (Roppa440)** » 17 Sep 2002 17:55

The maltese cross was for main bearings. We are talking rod bearings here.