Subject: Re: follow up on Quantum (Apple) HD problems

From: [email-masked] (John O'Malley)
Date: Wed, 10 May 89 16:50:51 -0500

Todd, here's some info for you.

In article <[email-masked]> you write:
>If you have had *any strange behavior*, please send me a mail message (or post)
>and I will post a summary.  I really would appreciate your input.
 
We have a lab of twenty-two Mac II computers, each with an Apple-supplied
40 meg internal HD.  We opened the lab in January '89, and almost immediately
had hard disk problems.  I don't have the actual number at hand, but I'd
guess that as many as eight of the machines have had hard disks go bad.

>	symptoms: (ie. won't find disk when turned on in the
>	           morning ...)
>
>Todd Heberlein [email-masked]

That's exactly what's happened.  Our technicians usually open up the machine,
power it on, and then nudge the hard disk itself to get it spinning.  Once
it starts spinning, it runs fine.  

My understanding is that there is some kind of lubricant in the motor that
solidifies, for some reason.  This prevents the disk from spinning when the
computer is powered on ... and thus, no recognizable hard drive.

Since these Macs are in a student laboratory, no important data is stored
on the disks.  Fortunately.  My supervisor (who is also in charge of the
computer repair department) has contacted Apple about the problem, and Apple
is apparently extending the warranty on these 22 hard disks.

MacWEEK had a blurb about the problem with certain Apple-supplied
40 meg drives recently, but I don't remember what supplier the article
mentioned.  I'm inclined to think that it said Quantum was the supplier,
and that Apple is looking into buying Seagate 40 meg drives as an
alternative.

John O'Malley           / Macintosh  / Purdue University / (317)
mace.cc.purdue.edu!ajq / Specialist / Computing Center  / 494-1787

---

From: Paul Baer <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 10 May 89 15:37:10 PDT

I have a new SE/30 with an internal 40 meg HD, I guess a quantum. It
does access periodically when nothing seems to be happening otherwise.
Frankly it doesn't bother me in the least (although it surprised me
ther first couple of times). I figured every model of computer is
entitled to its quirks, and this one seemed pretty harmless.

--pb

---

From: [email-masked] (Frank Malczewski)
Date: Wed, 10 May 89 18:49:16 PDT

If you are the person I responded to yesterday, let me reiterate that I
have seen a larger than usual number of posts concerning the HD40 (3-1/2
inch version) relating to its reliability/failure.  Keep this in mind@
-- 

  -- Frank Malczewski        ([email-masked])

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From: [email-masked] (Chris Johnson)
Date: Thu, 11 May 89 12:44:56 -0500

In article <[email-masked]> you write:
>
>Follow up: Someone said they thought the problem might be just with
>the 40 HD.  Also, I seem to recall the problems I heard were with
>the small 40 Meg hard disks.  I am still very interested in tracking
>down the problem (if one really exists) with the HDs.  If you have had
>*any strange behavior*, please send me a mail message (or post) and I
>will post a summary.  I really would appreciate your input.
>
>In the message please include information such as
>	machine: (ie. se, se/30, II, ...)
>	software: (ie. 6.0.x, a certain application package, etc)
>	HD: (size, company, internal or external, etc)
>	           morning, unexplained disk access, ...)
>
>Thanks,
>
>Todd Heberlein

Todd,

I've had nothing but bad experiences with Quantum 40 drives, so I find
it odd that so many people were so anxious to leap to their defense.  I
imagine that Quantum is a good company, since it is only the 40s that have
been trouble, but the 40s we've had have been a tremendous nightmare.

All of them were shipped in Mac IIs from Apple.
The software includes Systems 4, 5 and 6.  The failures are not related to
    the applications in use.
The problem is that, if the Mac has been turned off for any length of time
    (over night, or over a weekend) it will fail to recognize it's disk when
    it is next turned on.  Sometimes you can let it warm up for a few minutes,
    turn it off, lift the right side of the machine about a half inch
    off the table and drop it, then turn it on and it'll work.  On other 
    occasions, that just isn't enough and you have to open up the machine,
    remove the hard disk and give it a good hard twist along the axis of the
    spindle (of course you have to reinstall aftwerward :-).

This has happened to every single Mac II/40 we've had (at least 5) and they
represent at least two completely different production runs since we aquired
them about a year and a half apart.

In several cases, we've had to replace the drives two or three times before
we finally got lucky (so far, at least).

This is just what's happened in my office, I've bumped into many other people
who've had the same problems.

It sounds to me like the Quantum 40s suffer from some basic design failings
since we've seen this happen with both the 5.25 inch and 3.5 inch models.
I hope Apple and/or Quantum will decide to do something about this - some
of our PC consultants are beginning to liken this situation to the CMI drives
that IBM initially shipped with the ATs.

Hope this helps,
----Chris

---

From: julie zelenski <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 11 May 89 13:22:23 PDT

I have 2 80 MB 31/2 Quantum ProDrives. Each installed in vanilla Mac IIs.  
One (mine :) !) has had no problems whatsoever.  The drive is a real
screamer and I love it.  My SOs however was not so fortunate.  It had
intermittent booting problems (wouldn't ever make it Startup screen, 
wouldn't come to Finder if booted off floppy)  He had to send it back
they fixed it once, had same problem again, and then they replaced his
drive.  Now he has no problems.  

julie z
stanford u

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From: Jack Decker <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 11 May 89 15:15:57 pdt

I recently had a HD failure on my SE/30.  It was a Sony 40Mb which
refused to boot up--the light would flash periodically but the drive
would not turn over.  I lost all data because the unit was swapped out
with another Sony.  The service guy said the motor was dead.

Good luck with your survey..

jack decker

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From: [email-masked] (Todd Vogelei)
Date: Sun, 14 May 89 08:58:17 MDT

I didn't see your original post, but I had an apple HD-40 go poof about 
one hundred dayse into use (10 days past apple's warranty).  I managed to
get them to replace it free anyway.  Also, my case may not be typical,
my macII suffered a failed power supply, and main board 86 days into use.
It is possible that whatever took out my PS/Main board also weakened the
HD-40.  I don't know.  In retrospect, I would not buy an apple drive just 
because of the 90 day warranty.  Many aftermarket drives give you a year.

Just my experience.

Todd
vogelei@nmtsun