Restoring and repairing Historic cars to be banned???!!!!Pos
Posted: 26 Apr 2011 14:42Petition letter against adoption of FIVA definition of Historic Vehicle
ACE reported recently on a meeting held between FIVA (Fédération Internationale des Véhicules Anciens) and the newly formed European Parliament Historic Vehicle Group
http://www.the-ace.org.uk/fiva-definiti ... he-eu.html
At this meeting it was suggested that the EU adopt the FIVA definition as the base for future legislation that may require exemptions for Historic vehicles.
This approach is supported by the “FBHVC” (Federation of British Historic Vehicle clubs).
Both of these organizations promote the ‘Restoration’ approach to historic vehicles, FIVA even more so than FBHVC.
What neither of the organizations appear to recognize is that ‘Daily driven and Modified’ vehicles also have a place in the Historic car world.
If the FIVA definition were to be adopted, owners of vehicles that did not fit that definition could be seriously disadvantaged.
Were regulations to be passed that required certain equipment to be mandatorily fitted to road vehicles, or restricting the use of certain vehicles in certain locations, (For example, as FIVA mention in their statement, Intelligent Transport Systems and LEZs) and exemptions were granted to Historic vehicles that come under the FIVA definition, owners of vehicles that were not FIVA spec could find themselves unwittingly legislated off the road.
While ACE can see the merit of a ‘Base’ definition of a Historic vehicle and how that would make things easier for legislators to frame their policy on possible exemptions around, it is important that the definition is not drawn too tightly.
Unless the politicians are aware of the flaws in the FIVA approach they will not be able to look after the interests of all enthusiasts and potentially you risk losing your hobby through the back door.
The link below leads to a pre-prepared letter which we would urge you to download and mail to your MP and MEP to assess their stance on this issue and make them aware of the possible implications of adopting the FIVA definition as the basis for legislation.
http://www.the-ace.org.uk/assets/docs/Petition.rtf
The letter reads as follows:
Dear
Following from Fédération Internationale des Véhicules Anciens' (FIVA) presentation to the Second Meeting of the European Parliament Historic Vehicle Group, I am writing to express my concern regarding the possible implications surrounding the implementation of FIVA's guidelines regarding the definition of Historic Vehicles.
FIVA defines a HISTORIC VEHICLE as a mechanically propelled road vehicle
• which is at least 30 years old;
• which is preserved and maintained in a historically correct condition;
• which is not used as means of daily transport;
• and which is therefore a part of our technical and cultural heritage.
This 4 year old survey was of member associations of FIVA across 11 countries and expresses only their views. The other 16 EU member countries have not been consulted or are even aware of this definition being pushed forward as definitive.
There are many vehicles in existence which meet only part of this definition. These vehicles are over 30 years old, and many are preserved and maintained in an historically correct condition, but many of them are in use as a means of daily transport. At present, many of these vehicles in the UK are registered using the 'Historic' taxation class, giving the benefit of a Vehicle Excise Duty rate of Nil with no restrictions on the use of the vehicle.
Also many of the vehicles in more regular use in the UK follow the Green Party ethos of recycling vehicles components and extending the useful life of an existing vehicle. Some may also be upgraded with later engines, creating less pollution than the still comparatively low original power plant. All of this is perfectly legal within the existing UK laws.
I am concerned that the implementation of the FIVA definition of Historic Vehicles may cause restrictions to be imposed on the use of any vehicle over 30 years old - preventing their use as a means of daily transport - so that such vehicles meet the definition of an Historic Vehicle.
FIVA recognises the existence of older vehicles not meeting their definition of Historic Vehicles - the update provided to the FBHVC by the EPPA (FIVA's Lobbying service) states that it is attempting to explain "why historic vehicles should be treated differently to all other vehicles, especially to all other ‘older’ vehicles".
I appreciate that providing a means for owners of older vehicles to "opt-out" of Historic status would remove the privileges associated with owning an Historic Vehicle - notably the common reduction in the rates of VED paid - but many would welcome the opportunity to use their vehicles as and when they see fit. Even if in daily use their contribution to emissions would be extremely small compared to mileage covered by the huge numbers of modern vehicles.
In fact, in many of the other countries not consulted on this definition they do not have 'Historic' vehicles, just older vehicles that provide daily transport and any proposals for use restrictions would seriously damage their economy.
Any restriction on use - be it a mileage cap, a permit system or detection of regular use by other means - would remove any practical aspect of owning a "classic car" over 30 years old, resulting in vehicles that currently ‘earn their keep’ during everyday use not being able to do so. This would result in many owners being forced to abandon their hobby due to practical considerations, such as storage space and increased per-mile running costs following the introduction of such restrictions, the values of affected vehicles may be reduced.
Owners of older vehicles like myself preserve a small part of the country’s motoring history at our own expense, mainly for our own pleasure but also for the benefit of the general public, and we ask for nothing in return. Many owners form and join clubs to celebrate the history of their vehicles and through these clubs provide support to the community through charity events, galas and motoring shows. By driving our vehicles on a daily basis, we present a rolling trip down memory lane for our fellow motorists, a small nostalgic break in the monotony of modern travel.
I, along with most other classic car owners, ensure that our vehicle/s is/are legal and roadworthy at all times and I believe I take a greater pride in my vehicle than many drivers of more modern vehicles. Vehicles that would not be deemed worthy of a place in a museum or private collection are given another chance to live on in the hands of a genuine enthusiast, who will often spend more than the vehicles market value to maintain it in legal and roadworthy condition. This in turn supports the wide range of classic car spares and restoration businesses - most of which are small firms, of the sort driving the economy in this harsh economic climate.
Any problems with Historic vehicles are self limiting as 'new' vehicles to these older specifications are not being produced and slowly their number will reduce. Also most modern cars will not reach Historic status as repair costs of electronic systems are prohibitively expensive and so many cars will reach EVL before enthusiasts become involved.
I can see no real benefit to restricting the use of older vehicles, only increased red tape with the associated costs and a restriction of personal freedoms that are currently enjoyed by so many. I once again ask that you oppose the imposition of any restrictions to use of older vehicles and allow the classic car movement to both continue its support of small businesses, communities and charities and enjoy the vehicles for what they are.
Yours sincerely,
I will be sending my copy to my MEP
Dublin:
Address: 192 Upper Rathmines Road, Dublin 6
Tel: 01 4961940
Fax: 01 4961940
Email: gay.mitchell@europarl.europa.eu
Brussels:
Address: European Parliament, ASP 08F 359, 60 rue Wiertz, B-1047, Belgium
Tel: 00 32 22847228
Fax: 00 32 2284 9228
Email: gay.mitchell@europarl.europa.eu
ACE reported recently on a meeting held between FIVA (Fédération Internationale des Véhicules Anciens) and the newly formed European Parliament Historic Vehicle Group
http://www.the-ace.org.uk/fiva-definiti ... he-eu.html
At this meeting it was suggested that the EU adopt the FIVA definition as the base for future legislation that may require exemptions for Historic vehicles.
This approach is supported by the “FBHVC” (Federation of British Historic Vehicle clubs).
Both of these organizations promote the ‘Restoration’ approach to historic vehicles, FIVA even more so than FBHVC.
What neither of the organizations appear to recognize is that ‘Daily driven and Modified’ vehicles also have a place in the Historic car world.
If the FIVA definition were to be adopted, owners of vehicles that did not fit that definition could be seriously disadvantaged.
Were regulations to be passed that required certain equipment to be mandatorily fitted to road vehicles, or restricting the use of certain vehicles in certain locations, (For example, as FIVA mention in their statement, Intelligent Transport Systems and LEZs) and exemptions were granted to Historic vehicles that come under the FIVA definition, owners of vehicles that were not FIVA spec could find themselves unwittingly legislated off the road.
While ACE can see the merit of a ‘Base’ definition of a Historic vehicle and how that would make things easier for legislators to frame their policy on possible exemptions around, it is important that the definition is not drawn too tightly.
Unless the politicians are aware of the flaws in the FIVA approach they will not be able to look after the interests of all enthusiasts and potentially you risk losing your hobby through the back door.
The link below leads to a pre-prepared letter which we would urge you to download and mail to your MP and MEP to assess their stance on this issue and make them aware of the possible implications of adopting the FIVA definition as the basis for legislation.
http://www.the-ace.org.uk/assets/docs/Petition.rtf
The letter reads as follows:
Dear
Following from Fédération Internationale des Véhicules Anciens' (FIVA) presentation to the Second Meeting of the European Parliament Historic Vehicle Group, I am writing to express my concern regarding the possible implications surrounding the implementation of FIVA's guidelines regarding the definition of Historic Vehicles.
FIVA defines a HISTORIC VEHICLE as a mechanically propelled road vehicle
• which is at least 30 years old;
• which is preserved and maintained in a historically correct condition;
• which is not used as means of daily transport;
• and which is therefore a part of our technical and cultural heritage.
This 4 year old survey was of member associations of FIVA across 11 countries and expresses only their views. The other 16 EU member countries have not been consulted or are even aware of this definition being pushed forward as definitive.
There are many vehicles in existence which meet only part of this definition. These vehicles are over 30 years old, and many are preserved and maintained in an historically correct condition, but many of them are in use as a means of daily transport. At present, many of these vehicles in the UK are registered using the 'Historic' taxation class, giving the benefit of a Vehicle Excise Duty rate of Nil with no restrictions on the use of the vehicle.
Also many of the vehicles in more regular use in the UK follow the Green Party ethos of recycling vehicles components and extending the useful life of an existing vehicle. Some may also be upgraded with later engines, creating less pollution than the still comparatively low original power plant. All of this is perfectly legal within the existing UK laws.
I am concerned that the implementation of the FIVA definition of Historic Vehicles may cause restrictions to be imposed on the use of any vehicle over 30 years old - preventing their use as a means of daily transport - so that such vehicles meet the definition of an Historic Vehicle.
FIVA recognises the existence of older vehicles not meeting their definition of Historic Vehicles - the update provided to the FBHVC by the EPPA (FIVA's Lobbying service) states that it is attempting to explain "why historic vehicles should be treated differently to all other vehicles, especially to all other ‘older’ vehicles".
I appreciate that providing a means for owners of older vehicles to "opt-out" of Historic status would remove the privileges associated with owning an Historic Vehicle - notably the common reduction in the rates of VED paid - but many would welcome the opportunity to use their vehicles as and when they see fit. Even if in daily use their contribution to emissions would be extremely small compared to mileage covered by the huge numbers of modern vehicles.
In fact, in many of the other countries not consulted on this definition they do not have 'Historic' vehicles, just older vehicles that provide daily transport and any proposals for use restrictions would seriously damage their economy.
Any restriction on use - be it a mileage cap, a permit system or detection of regular use by other means - would remove any practical aspect of owning a "classic car" over 30 years old, resulting in vehicles that currently ‘earn their keep’ during everyday use not being able to do so. This would result in many owners being forced to abandon their hobby due to practical considerations, such as storage space and increased per-mile running costs following the introduction of such restrictions, the values of affected vehicles may be reduced.
Owners of older vehicles like myself preserve a small part of the country’s motoring history at our own expense, mainly for our own pleasure but also for the benefit of the general public, and we ask for nothing in return. Many owners form and join clubs to celebrate the history of their vehicles and through these clubs provide support to the community through charity events, galas and motoring shows. By driving our vehicles on a daily basis, we present a rolling trip down memory lane for our fellow motorists, a small nostalgic break in the monotony of modern travel.
I, along with most other classic car owners, ensure that our vehicle/s is/are legal and roadworthy at all times and I believe I take a greater pride in my vehicle than many drivers of more modern vehicles. Vehicles that would not be deemed worthy of a place in a museum or private collection are given another chance to live on in the hands of a genuine enthusiast, who will often spend more than the vehicles market value to maintain it in legal and roadworthy condition. This in turn supports the wide range of classic car spares and restoration businesses - most of which are small firms, of the sort driving the economy in this harsh economic climate.
Any problems with Historic vehicles are self limiting as 'new' vehicles to these older specifications are not being produced and slowly their number will reduce. Also most modern cars will not reach Historic status as repair costs of electronic systems are prohibitively expensive and so many cars will reach EVL before enthusiasts become involved.
I can see no real benefit to restricting the use of older vehicles, only increased red tape with the associated costs and a restriction of personal freedoms that are currently enjoyed by so many. I once again ask that you oppose the imposition of any restrictions to use of older vehicles and allow the classic car movement to both continue its support of small businesses, communities and charities and enjoy the vehicles for what they are.
Yours sincerely,
I will be sending my copy to my MEP
Dublin:
Address: 192 Upper Rathmines Road, Dublin 6
Tel: 01 4961940
Fax: 01 4961940
Email: gay.mitchell@europarl.europa.eu
Brussels:
Address: European Parliament, ASP 08F 359, 60 rue Wiertz, B-1047, Belgium
Tel: 00 32 22847228
Fax: 00 32 2284 9228
Email: gay.mitchell@europarl.europa.eu
