The Dodge Challenger Message Board

Eddie, i'd love to come to that show one year soon, WAS all down to come this year, but looks like Florida again in November!!!! Love to bring the car over to the Nats though.......Anyone know the lotto numbers please?!!!!

It would be great to see you Steve! Maybe next year, or Santa Pod for me!!!

jh27n0b wrote:Spent 2 days at the nats and did not get to see all of it. It was great to see you Eddie, even though for some reason you were hanging out at the entrance to the mens room. I agree that I also don't like the layout. It makes it very difficult to see everything. I noticed that attendance was down from previous years and I think and everyone else thinks it is because of the layout. Still there was a lot of beautiful cars. Well worth the trip. They did not have the original concept Challenger. Just the super stock version. I did meet and old buddy who works at the Auburn Hills Tech center. He saw several pre production Challengers in the "shop". He said that the grille is more 70 like than the concept. Still pre production and still just a rumor though. I can not wait for the Challenger to make its return. Feb/06/2008 11:00 am.
Bob

It was great to see you Bob, you just missed a man who "cornered me" at the mens room to tell me of Jane Hathaways car on the Beverly Hillbillies, I know but this dude was pretty strange looking and sounding, I let him babble on until you showed up! Can't wait till Sept. 1 then we can cruise I am going to have my Challenger at the Federal Penitentiary,(Where I retired from), this Sunday August 19, 2007. There is a Prison Car Show,(HorsePower Locked Up) I will see some of my old friends and the public is invited SunDay 10:00 Am till 5:00 PM More pics to follow. Hope they have a restroom!(Dave knows I dont do those things. Not anymore)

airfuelEddie wrote:Do you think I could go "bigger" with a different combo and still retain true street usage with a similar piston?

In my opinion, street usage is mainly due to camshaft and head choice.

Street usage and the position of the oil ring right in the pin area always seem to be a problem. I know I'd have gone to the biggest available kit (that's what I did, but by the time I had it assembled, the 512 was out, and now it's 528 and 543). But that's just me. I only drive 3 or 4k miles a year, maybe 5 on the big years.
I would say if the top rings are chosen with care, it should not be a problem. Stay safe anyway, and follow Brandon's advice, he has sold so many of his kits he must have a pretty good return on the various uses they get.
Besides, the bigger kits require oiling modifications (external pickups), and it's not worth the hassle for a street engine.

fbernard wrote:

airfuelEddie wrote:Do you think I could go "bigger" with a different combo and still retain true street usage with a similar piston?

In my opinion, street usage is mainly due to camshaft and head choice.

Street usage and the position of the oil ring right in the pin area always seem to be a problem. I know I'd have gone to the biggest available kit (that's what I did, but by the time I had it assembled, the 512 was out, and now it's 528 and 543). But that's just me. I only drive 3 or 4k miles a year, maybe 5 on the big years.
I would say if the top rings are chosen with care, it should not be a problem. Stay safe anyway, and follow Brandon's advice, he has sold so many of his kits he must have a pretty good return on the various uses they get.
Besides, the bigger kits require oiling modifications (external pickups), and it's not worth the hassle for a street engine.

Thanks Fabian, I appreciate your advice! I have talked to Brandon and he basically stated exactly what you said. It wont be a problem for short term street usage. Lets face it, this beast isnt going to get more than 4-6 MPG when built and installed in a Bracket bomber A -body,(1976 Dart), so I may still go the 543 route!! It wont be driven more than 5-7k a year more like 2k! and we all know a larger engine is always better! Have you seen the new block he is coming out with in spring of 08? New Heads also, 899.00 complete so building a strong big engine will become "economical". I am still in the planning stages but have bought a 383 forged crank for blueprinting and am still measuring all surfaces and checking the mains for crankshaft alignment. The block goes to the machine shop next month for a sonic test and bore/hone with plates minimum amount for clean up. The entire engine will have to built using his parts as it's the most economical and the quality appears high. I just may go bigger! Do you have or ever heard of oil contamination or detonation from oil seepage from any of the 400/stroker's? External oil pick-up is no problem for my application, but thanks for the heads up on it.

Yes, I saw his new gear announced on Moparts.

I think I'll build another engine when he starts putting out those blocks.
The twin-turbo low-deck all-aluminum engine visits me in my dreams sometimes...

Don't forget to take a look at this too :
http://www.440source.com/girdles.htm

I have a competing product that is simply not as good as that (but this one didn't exist back then). Brandon sells the BCR setup. I just wish I had used new caps when I built mine (and used external oiling). But this choice must be made before the machine work is done. No point in line honing the old caps and doing it all over again afterwards...

Brandon's new pistons are not as dished as the Ross were (but he quit using Ross for pretty good reasons according to what I read these days), so you may need to use thick head gaskets to get low compression (what? no nitrous?)

My engine has absolutely no gas-oil contamination issues (oil looks brand new). oil to brake pads, though, is another matter... I should have used more RTV on the right head, or I need a better crankcase ventilation system.

This was posted on the e-body message board a while ago. It got me thinking....

I just received the dyno results from an engine I had Hughes Engines build using one of Brandon's 440Source custom stroker kits with the balance of the parts, components and know-how coming from Hughes Engines.

The basic build; 4.15 superlight 440Source crank, Ross custom lightened and coated 30-over zero deck height pistons, Gapless rings, 440Source premium 7.100 rods & coated clevite bearings, Hughes Prepped RB block & Indy Ez heads(non-Max wedge port)with stage 2 Hughes porting and prep, titanium retainers, Hughes Hydraulic roller cam and valve train, Edlbrock aluminum six pack mainifold with Hughes deep porting, Promax rebuilt Holley mechanical carbs with choke horn milled, Promax billet metering blocks and some skillful carb tuning by Hughes.

This motor is not going in my daily driver, consequently I figure I'll be lucky to burn 30 gallons a month through it. I didn't want to run it on the straight 91 octane pump gas we have here in California, and planned on feeding it a mixture of 91 pump and race gas(for off road use only of course). I figure it comes out to about $1 more a day to run the high compression, and I love the snappy acceleration and sound it gives a motor.

Here are the results. It twists over 600 foot pounds of torque above 3000 rpm, peaking at 684.5 lbs/feet of torque at 4600 rpm and 681.1 horsepower at 5500 rpm

dave-r wrote:This was posted on the e-body message board a while ago. It got me thinking....

Right now, what got me thinking bad thoughts again is this :
http://board.moparts.org/ubbthreads/showflat.php?Cat=0&Board=Racer&Number=3700144
...and the budget blown 440 article Mopar Action did a while back.

Not to mention neighbour-friendly noise levels at idle, even with straight through mufflers!

There, I think I wet myself again. Shhhh!

Thanks Fabian, I might have to look further into the bigger stroke longer rod combos. The 470 uses Chev rods and 1.485 piston height with 2618 pistons I'll have to use a minimum .006 cylinder wall to piston clearance as opposed to my Ross .004 in my Challenger's 440 engine,3.915 Platinum series crank, 6.535 Chevy rods with MoPar width. I'll probably use a girdle but so far havent decided yet. I figure if one needs a girdle, then the billet steel/aluminum caps should be used. Kinda like using a forged crank and cast pistons, you'll crack or shatter the cast parts over a certain rpm way before the crank is damaged. Having no oil contamination issues in your application has me thinking bigger is better. The problem I "see" for now is I'll have to invest 1500.00 (est. cost) for machine work or I could just build a 400 O.E.M. 4-barrel dual plane, stock exhaust, mild cam engine, then sell it and buy a real race block thats streetable from Brandon for a little more than the machine work I would have to do to the stock 400 block Yeah, Fabian I too have pressurized fantasies of turbos and NoX!! Thats why I want to build such a strong shortblock with 4340 Parts and strong Forged Pistons with coated bearings and ARP fasteners throughout! I might have to go the "Concours" route with that engine and sell it to someone restoring a "Cordoba with rich corinthian Leather"

Who needs a big engine, my little 383 is now in the 10's!!!!!

Dave that dyno sheet for that stroker motor is very impressive since it was performed with a dual plane. Wonder how much intake porting they had to do to adapt those intake ports to those 300cc+ intake ports on those INDY EZ heads? I bet Dave Hughes was busy on that project for a while. I just cant get over those numbers. I would think that the H.P. would have peaked at a lower RPM than that. I see he used a Holley Dominator with what appears to be a Victor intake. Something isnt right there. It overlaps the 6bbl and dual plane dyno reading! How the hell did he do that? The torque was expected but the power is Caraazy man!! Steve your the man with that awesome 383 !!

The six pack manifold has suprised many people over the years I can tell you. It holds its own against some impressive single plane manifolds up to 6500rpm.

Then there is this little baby for sale...

http://www.racingjunk.com/post/934118/Q ... p-gas.html

Yikes! Pretty impressive. Pretty expensive. Where the hell would you stuff that cooling module? Getting back to that Dave Hughes "tweaked" Big block. Dave must have "figured out" how to get more air into the intake ports with the lack of plenum volume. It's hard to believe because all the testing I have seen done using the Victor has brought power up 5%+,(thats being conservative), or more over a dual plane. Also both curves peak at only 5500 RPM's, weird. Not saying he is wrong or lying, I applaud his research and development. He even states on his website that the intake manifold should flow 5% more than the heads!

That turbo Hemi looks good but it is rubbish. People that know more about turbos than me say it would probably make more power with two of the turbos removed.

It is impressive getting all that hardware to work together without something overheating or blowing up. Right now the "turbo diesel truck guys" are using the VGT style turbos and getting great boost and response at both ends of the rpm band, of course they only rev to 4000 or so, the v-8's a little higher than the class leading Dodge six's!