The Dodge Challenger Message Board

Schumacher torque limiting device installed, very nice unit,,I have one on my 70 too!

Hey Eddie. You seen these?

http://www.borgeson.com/xcart/home.php?cat=143

dave-r wrote:Hey Eddie. You seen these?

http://www.borgeson.com/xcart/home.php?cat=143

I have and one of the mags did an install ,it seems like it might be more trouble than it is worth

In what way Drew?

dave-r wrote:In what way Drew?

THEY did have to modify the k frame I cant remember now I will have to did the mag out it was Mopar Action, and when it was all said and done they had the same ratio as stock, the only advantage is more header clearance ,just my opinion , I THINK the stock boxes work jus fine.

I just looked for the article and cant find it at the moment, the mod had something to do with the mounting holes not lining up and one has top be relocated ,not sure I blocked it out of my mind when I saw what had to be done, and not much improvement on handling ,I dont like to go to that much trouble for a little bit of gain, if any 14;1 is a better ratio but I remember now the column has to be shortened ,I also am not sold on the flaming river coupler , the application calls for dimpling the column and using set screws to hod iton, not what I want to trust,Ma mopar yes they did a cheap design but it works

When you see the flaming river one you can see how solid it is. I thought it was great. The set screws are not a worry. Loctight and they have a locking nut on them too.

The instructions for those 14:1 boxes say nothing about mods needed. Maybe the magazine test was with early prototypes? Or maybe they are just crap anyway.

I just wondered if they really were any good. Sounds like maybe not.

Yes I have, Thank You Dave! Drew, I didn't know about the K-Member problems, I did know about the Borgeson steering coupler and the steering shaft "surgery". I had a Borgeson on my 1990 Dodge PowerRam and it was much much better than the factory "slop coupler" it however, was a 1 piece steering shaft. I, like Drew, don't want to spend a lot for little gain. Sure it would be nice to have true 14:1 ratio with a fast ratio pitman/idler along with my TTI/Dougs headers but for that kind of money my Stage III FF power box will be more than adequate. I also spoke with Brad (Brads 70), and he also has used both Stage III box and the Borgeson box and he advised me to stay with my proven FF components. I have been reading a lot about the Keisler trans issues with the LGT I ordered. Seems the driveline angles are off on the B-Body installs. Hope the E-Body units have that corrected. We shall see soon

dave-r wrote:When you see the flaming river one you can see how solid it is. I thought it was great. The set screws are not a worry. Loctight and they have a locking nut on them too.

The instructions for those 14:1 boxes say nothing about mods needed. Maybe the magazine test was with early prototypes? Or maybe they are just crap anyway.

I just wondered if they really were any good. Sounds like maybe not.

According to Peter Bergman from Bergman Auto Craft and a regular on the handling section(Moparts),,they are far better than the old mopar power boxes,,in any iteration! I also spoke with him a few months ago,,at that time,,the modifications were more involved. According to the Borgeson website only the steering shaft needs to be cut a bit and the coupler bolted on,,if this was 3 months ago I would have opted for the Borgeson,,but I have all my FF steering parts now,,too pricey to start all over.

Eddie wrote:

dave-r wrote:When you see the flaming river one you can see how solid it is. I thought it was great. The set screws are not a worry. Loctight and they have a locking nut on them too.

The instructions for those 14:1 boxes say nothing about mods needed. Maybe the magazine test was with early prototypes? Or maybe they are just crap anyway.

I just wondered if they really were any good. Sounds like maybe not.

According to Peter Bergman from Bergman Auto Craft and a regular on the handling section(Moparts),,they are far better than the old mopar power boxes,,in any iteration! I also spoke with him a few months ago,,at that time,,the modifications were more involved. According to the Borgeson website only the steering shaft needs to be cut a bit and the coupler bolted on,,if this was 3 months ago I would have opted for the Borgeson,,but I have all my FF steering parts now,,too pricey to start all over.

YEA Dave you are right I have seen many cars with the flame set up and they have no issues, but with me ,I gotta keep that part simple ,with 3 stages of the old boxes, it works reliably enough, plus the price is AROUND...150 more, than a FF

Chrysler does use the Delphi/Borgeson box in the new Jeeps I think. I also think it's a superior design, 45+ years of tech and CAD/CAM/FIA will do that! I still may upgrade,,gonna wait and see how my Stage III box with upgraded,(heavy duty), Firm feel components do.

Eddie wrote:Chrysler does use the Delphi/Borgeson box in the new Jeeps I think. I also think it's a superior design, 45+ years of tech and CAD/CAM/FIA will do that! I still may upgrade,,gonna wait and see how my Stage III box with upgraded,(heavy duty), Firm feel components do.

yea I found the article Mopar Action April 2013.

Yea they did this borguson box on Gran Cherokees 99 -04.

This box you can get has been Heavilly modified, the use a half million dollar CNC machine to re spline the sector shaft to accept the old stock pitman arms(IN BOTH SIZES).

The mod I was talking about is minor, a small adjustment on the casting edge,to clear the K frame , the claim Boreguson will have tha fixed,also th e fittings are different so they should supply adaptors.


The coupler, This mag opted to modify a stock unit the welded a new borguson supplied spline .

This necessary as the box is slightly shorter than a factory box.

Here is a big thing as to why they dont use a u joint for the coupler.

"One is the upper colummn bearing ,or its insulator /retainor will be damage or pushed out of placethis will destroy the turn signal switch."

"the upper bearing in the chuck will be damaged ."

"The shear pins on the telescoping columns will break,in some cases this will result in a rattle but isnt catastrophic "

I got all this from the mag , not sure if it is true but they dont like the coupler either

Well thats good to know.

I replaced mine because my stock coupler needed replacing. It was pretty beat up and kept falling apart. Plus I thought more header clearence was a good idea with 2" primary pipes.

Eddie I don't think you should upgrade the system you have in place now. I can't see that there will be any major improvement over what you have there. I should have posted my question in a new thread and not this one. Sorry.

dave-r wrote:Well thats good to know.

I replaced mine because my stock coupler needed replacing. It was pretty beat up and kept falling apart. Plus I thought more header clearence was a good idea with 2" primary pipes.

Eddie I don't think you should upgrade the system you have in place now. I can't see that there will be any major improvement over what you have there. I should have posted my question in a new thread and not this one. Sorry.

Please Dave,, don't be sorry,,I hope you continue to throw in your input. I always study what you say,,I wish I was 1/2 as talented as you are!

taint no hijacking rules here are there? ,we have good chats here,good info to

drewcrane wrote:taint no hijacking rules here are there? ,we have good chats here,good info to

Well spoken bro

Firm Feel adjustable strut rods installed. Had to grind approx. .065 from the beefed up thick washers I welded on last year, after that the Poly bushings fit like a glove. The lower control arm has to be almost fully removed to get the shaft in. Then it's adjusted to provide full lower control movement without binding.

#2

#3

Ah quality

The fact it has a poly bushing will help take the harsh ride out of those strut rods,Mine are a solid aluminum bushing and although I can really feel the road more they are a bit noisy as far as road noise and the bumps are a bit harsh

Are the rose jointed type just as harsh as the solid type?

Anything other than rubber is going to increase NVH. I think the most important thing here is the welding/re-inforcing of the K-Member to withstand the torsional stresses of the harder durometer poly or the even harder alloy bushings used. Without this,, failure of the strut rod bosses is imminent!! The K is made up of thin sheet steel spot welded together. There are even some who separate the k Halves, and internally gusset the weak spots both internally/externally. That's a bit anal for me

I agree a bit anal monkey but after suffering the collapsed lca pivot pin socket in my cars K member I'm all for a few spot welds, gussets and strengthening

Yeah, I learned from both You and Drew Ade! Next pic should show the Viper Brakes hung on my 74 A-Body big bearing spindles

Yea after my k frame failure I did but some gussets inside the k frame where the strut rod mounts well as the LCA pivot I DONT WANT FAILURE AGAIN !!!

2004 Dodge Viper 13" brakes installed on 1974 A-Body (1.375) big bearing size, spindles. The kit is super nice, fit like a Condom,,er Glove!

#2 The spindles have to be swapped side to side because the Brembo Cailpers must be installed to the rear with brake bleeders in the highest position.

#3 Brembo Caliper adaptors, Billet CNC'd aluminum with socket head fasteners(2). Very easy!

Such nice work Eddie.........Drool factor 2000!!!!

So sexy it hurts.