The Dodge Challenger Message Board

That brake kit is the mutts nuts mate
Did that come from DrDiff? Calliper brackets included?
Think I could use that on my car

Thanks Drew! Yes, Ade, the brake kit is from Dr. Diff, includes the Billet aluminum caliper adaptor/brackets, I opted for new calipers instead of rebuilt units. The cost was $1450(includes 7/8" Master, front stainless DOT brake lines, distribution block with warning circuit, brake lines from master to block)

Are they Viper discs also? Very comprehensive kit tho, price match that against the opposition from Wilwood, Baer, etc and they look good value.
I suppose I could use a Scarebird bearing adaptor to do the same thing instead of buying spindles? You used drop spindles in the end didn't you Ed?

Adrian Worman wrote:Are they Viper discs also? Very comprehensive kit tho, price match that against the opposition from Wilwood, Baer, etc and they look good value.
I suppose I could use a Scarebird bearing adaptor to do the same thing instead of buying spindles? You used drop spindles in the end didn't you Ed?

Yes Ade, they are Brembo/Viper rotors which are available thru Dodge or from Dr. Diff. They are very high quality rotors at a reasonable price 1.250 thick. The Calipers are also Brembo/Viper and can be had at the same sources used, re-manned, or new. I opted for all new parts. No Ade I didn't want dropped because the tie rod gets very close to the wheel rim, stock ride height for me,,maybe a slight drop from the T-Bar adjusters but to low around my area is asking for trouble. We have horrendous back roads Many dips, potholes railroad tracks are everywhere as Terre Haute, IN was very much like where Dave R. lives used to be a manufacturing hub All that's left is those damned RR tracks! . I also wanted drop forged spindles as the factory made them. My spindles are from a 74 Disc braked Duster(A-Body). Many of the aftermarket spindles are plain cast iron or ductile iron, strong yes,,but not as strong as the factory spindles. As far as the scarebird bearing spacer,, I would ask Cass personally if his brake kits are compatible with the spacer. My complete kit with new MoPar 7/8" Lightweight Disc/Drum Master , distribution block, master brake lines to block, was $1450.00 delivered. Not bad for all you get! INFO!!! The factory single piston square front Pad area=5.940 square inches The Viper Kit I have is 5.480 a little smaller,,remember what I said about Brake bias? Target a 2:1 ratio the fronts are twice as "powerful" as the rears. THIS is very important. My rear 11.7" rear discs are around 2.4 inches so a 2:1 to a 2.5 to 1 is maintained,,well see if I got this right!! Also on multi piston fixed calipers you only count 1 side of the pistons not both sides for total square area of force. The Viper Calipers have staggered pistons,(one piston is a bit smaller then the other), this helps keep pad wear even. So this means the Viper Calipers must be mounted so the smaller piston is the lead piston. They must be rear hung to operate correctly and this places the bleeder screw in the highest position,(for proper brake line bleeding/purging). Hope this helps as a note buying Andy Finkbeiners Mopar B-Body Performance upgrades is a smart move! It covers all aftermarket and factory brake/chassis/engine/cooling/ body re-inforcing ectt money WELL spent!

Eddie. I remembered seeing a post where you were talking about fitting the torque boxes and chassis connectors to the underside of the car. But I can't see any photos of that work.

How did it go? Did the frame connectors fit without too much "adjusting"? Can't have been easy doing it on your back on the floor.

Yes Dave, the torque boxes,(4), have been welded in. The frame connectors are going to be installed on my 4 post lift with actual weight on all 4 tires with the entire powertrain in place. My 4 post will be just like an alignment rack without the wheel sensors, you know the lazer projectors that measure the wheel specs,(Camber, Caster, toe-in ect) This way the chassis is squared up. I spoke with a few chassis builders at the Indy MoPar show and that's what they suggested. Weld them in any other way and you risk "torquing' the chassis in a position that's not natural and it ends up "bent" permanently. I'll get a pic for you.

Isn't the welding going to bugger the nice paint finish you have on the interior floor though Eddie??

I welded the T-Boxes 1st,,then stripped off the cheap paint on the interior floor pans. here are some pics of the T-Boxes installed. When it comes time for the subframe connectors, this Fall, after my shop lift gets installed, I'll post pics. I am also going to install dyna-mat that I got a good deal on. The interior will be the last thing installed. I am going with a complete TTI 1 7/8 headers,,TTI X-Pipe exhaust in 2 1/2 inch, 2" headers and 3" exhaust will make more power BUT I also need max ground clearance and don't want it too loud. I plan on driving this beast year round and at night. My neighbors are mostly elderly people and don't want to upset them. They despise me enough already

I plan on using 2x2 or 2x3 square tubing for the Sub connectors. I am not going to slit the floor pans. Either homemade connectors or ART units. Welded at both ends. It will make a huge difference in rigidity. The welds are a little sloppy due to a 120V flux cored welder,,junk,, it did penetrate well and will be fine,,, this fall Eddie's gets a new Miller 240V( inert Gas) welder,(MIG).

Use 2X3 steel Ed and lay it flat against the floor, you'll get a stiffer installed section against the square section steel.
I plan on doing that to the Barracuda floorpan.
If you auto X it (which should be law in your case ) and plan on a cage install it'll give you a broader footprint of steel to bolt/weld to
I built my own exhaust in 2 1/2" steel pipe and a selection of 15/30/45 deg bends and although it took a couple of weeks its tight against the floor, the header collectors are the only parts that are lower than the floorpan braces.

Thanks for the advice Ade,, I'll do just that! As far as a cockpit cage,,I don't think I'll ever do that. Having fun with family and friends is way more important to me personally than that last bit of competitive edge. I want to compete in at least 1 Auto-X, timed event, roadcourse ectt. BUT, my contact/mentor,,,Mitch lelito informed me that the Midwest SCCA is getting ridiculous as far as fees, logistics, ect. A set of 30 to 40 treadwear tires is around 1200-1500 dollars a set. Those tires last about 60 minutes. 30 to 40 treadwear tires is extremely soft and sticky. To be competitive,,you gotta run with the bigdogs. Sounds like a rich mans hobby! I took all the grandkids for a ride in my 70 last weekend. They all have seat time in a 70 R/T at 120 per! This gives me a lot of joy. (scaring children)

If I was doing another big block exhaust system I would go Dougs headers with 2" primaries into 3.5" collectors again.

Then as on my Challenger I would reduce to 3" pipe to run to the mufflers just before the axle.

But unlike on my Challenger I would reduce again to 2.5" on the exit from the muffler (if there is space) to take it over the axle and to the tail pipes.

In theory I think this will help maintain exhaust gas velocity because as the exhaust gasses run through the pipe they cool. As gasses cool they drop in pressure and as gas moving through a pipe drops in pressure it slows down.

Keeping exhaust velocity up "should" increase the scavaging effect to my mind.

This is just a crackpot theory I came up with years ago. No idea if the argument is valid or not.

No crackpot thoughts there Daveman, scavenging science is what made the most gains on two stroke sports bike engines from the '70's up to the present day.
Pulses, pressure waves etc all play a part.
I know the tech doesn't have such a marked effect on four stroke engines but big gains can still be made from thinking out the exhaust system properly
In last months Mopar Muscle they removed a header and 2 1/2" system from a B body and replaced it with a 3" TTI full crossover system, made 30 hp and 35 ftlb on a chassis dyno, took 2 tenths off their baseline qtr time.

As fast as your Challenger was Dave,,I'm sure that theory is sound. I forgot about Dougs. I just may have to get those,,they used to be a few bucks cheaper then TTI's. I have TTI's on my 70 1 7/8" into 2 1/2 and X pipe. I love a powerful sounding car,, and from my experience there is a big diff between the 2 1/2 versus the 3" it's much deeper in tone. Plus the Po Po around here are downright militant

Adrian Worman wrote:No crackpot thoughts there Daveman, scavenging science is what made the most gains on two stroke sports bike engines from the '70's up to the present day.
Pulses, pressure waves etc all play a part.
I know the tech doesn't have such a marked effect on four stroke engines but big gains can still be made from thinking out the exhaust system properly
In last months Mopar Muscle they removed a header and 2 1/2" system from a B body and replaced it with a 3" TTI full crossover system, made 30 hp and 35 ftlb on a chassis dyno, took 2 tenths off their baseline qtr time.

Ade, was the old system equipped with a X or H pipe?

Both were H pattern about a foot from the collector reducers.
I got a really old, like nearly 30 year old Dougs headers on my Chally, 1 7/8" to 3" collector, they've never failed and don't even look corroded
I don't run any crossover pipe cos I love the raspy bellow that comes out the tail pipes too much!
In fact other people liked it so much it now provides the exhaust sound for an R/T Charger in the new Grid racing game

When you have been reading Mopar Muscle for as long as I have (or did) you start to realise that they always find good results in their tests. In particular when it involves one of their major advertisers.....

Most everything claiming to be a bolt on power improvement seems to make an extra 20-30hp. Doesn't matter if it is headers, intakes, air filters or new exhaust configurations. Funny that.

That power level must be just on the threshold of placebo effect.

I will tell you another thing.

You flog a motor on a dyno. It will often tend to make more power on the later pulls.

Just sayin.

Yeah I like that mag but I never seen em slag of anything they've tested.......... I kind of see where ya comin from Daveman

Yea I finally did not renew Mopar Muscle seems like the same mag every issue who ever gives them or sponsors them they ust their product ,Mopar Action has alot more interesting content especially with their suspension builds .

The exhaust if I had to do over i would go the same route as you Dave but my car is pretty loud out the back from what people say ,inside it is nice enough to carry on a convo with some one,mine is 3 inch with x pipe to straight mufflers and then 2.5 from muffler .this system has always rubbed on the axle housing and I just dont see how 3 inches will go over the axle but I have seen it done

Yeah my 3" system went over the axle but it was tight. Very close to the shocks and edges of the tank. Because I cut up the TTI system into about 18 pieces to work around the GV overdrive (before TTI made a system like that) I was probably in a better position to make it fit right.

My biggest concern is the rear FF frame mounted sway bar,,did your's have a bar Dave? How did you get around that?

My bar was axle mounted. Again, the "correct" type was not available when I bought my suspension parts nearly 20 years ago. Jesus. I can't believe it was that long ago.

Thanks for that info Dave. I have an excellent exhaust guy here in terry hut. he can do almost anything, I'm gonna hook up my headers then take the car and the exhaust pipes plus I'm going to use Dyno-Max Ultra Flos,,they are stainless, TTI stainless tips,,all 2 1/2 sized. The dyno-max turbos are too quiet

Oh and Dave,, I sold the contoured frame connectors. They neck down to 3/4 " something about the chain being only as strong as the weakest link comes to mind. I'm going to use square tubing, get it close as I can to the floorpans as Ade suggested, but only welded at the ends,,the floorpans will be fine.

The contoured ones don't need to be that big because the floorpan itself becomes the part connecting everything together and making the chassis much stiffer. Taking the flex out of the floorpan in the key here.

Only connecting the front and rear subframes will still stiffen the chassis but most of the strength of that in the fore/aft direction.
I think you should re-consider including an attachment to the floorpan as well. Even if you just connect your steel tubing at one point.

On mine I connected the floorpan by welding in a driveshaft loop across the width of the floor and connecting each subframe connector together.

I might be completely wrong. But when I looked at the chassis and where the front of the driveshaft was (the overdive made the driveshaft 14 inches shorter) I realised the driveshaft loop would be about half way down the chassis. So I decided to tie everything in with the loop.

The floorpan did feel very solid as a result I must say.

Yep, I'm with Daveman on the die-cut sub connectors. The box (rectangular really) steel is very strong cos its made from a very heavy gauge material, but its also heavy in the bad sense of the word.
The floor may be thin and flexible compared to the chassis subframe components but it covers a very large area and if its tied to the connectors the whole assembly will be that much stronger.
Whatever you use just make sure you can weld inch long stitches along the brace where it touches the floor

Kinky linky to XV Motorsports chassis stiffening system.......

http://www.xvmotorsports.com/products/d ... fm?nPID=14


Interestingly the Hotchkis system doesn't work the same way and is more like the rect section steel that Ed was describing using.
If you look at the area at the rear of the connector in those XV pics tho you'll see how comprehensivly the whole area is tied together. If that was a rect box section it wouldn't meet the floor till a foot or so away from the rear subframe, compare that to the die-cut system and the floor is sharing the load instantly. Not only is the floor being braced but it is helping to stiffen the rest of the car.

Adrian Worman wrote:Kinky linky to XV Motorsports chassis stiffening system.......

http://www.xvmotorsports.com/products/d ... fm?nPID=14


Interestingly the Hotchkis system doesn't work the same way and is more like the rect section steel that Ed was describing using.
If you look at the area at the rear of the connector in those XV pics tho you'll see how comprehensivly the whole area is tied together. If that was a rect box section it wouldn't meet the floor till a foot or so away from the rear subframe, compare that to the die-cut system and the floor is sharing the load instantly. Not only is the floor being braced but it is helping to stiffen the rest of the car.

I put the XV units on ours and yes they stiffen the whole floor and frame it boxes things in so well I can remove a jack stand from under the car and it will stay on 3 stands

Thanks for the advice Drew, Dave and Ade,,I will change my thinking and get a set of connectors and tie it into the ends and floorpan. I like Daves idea of tying the loop into the floorpan! This will be done this Fall after my shop is completed and with a lift it should make overhead welding much easier.