The Dodge Challenger Message Board

Finally.

After quite a bit of work, it's almost over. I drove 100km yesterday with a friend, with no notable problems except a little overheating (which went away as soon as I could drive a few hundred meters in neutral). We tore down the electric water pump and fans when we got back and did a quick test afterward with a good old mechanical pump and viscous fan setup, and the temp never got beyond 170°F while driving.

I believe the culprit is the dual 10" fan setup, with a very restrictive fan shroud. I have not given up on the electric pump, but I will need to find a real fan. In the meantime, a mechanical will do.

I don't know what it is but your car looks very "Euro" (and I mean that in a nice way!).

It looks like it would be right at home in the Swiss or Italian Alps if you know what I mean.

It is very nice. Well done!

It looks like a car who prefers to eat a curvy road for breakfast.
I like cars that both accelerates and handles well. Your car looks
like one of those cars.

PS. I do not recognize the emblem down below on the front fender.
Do you have any close-up of it?

SWEET

I absolutely love it! Curvy roads are what these cars are meant for! After a few mods of course fabian your car is gorgeous! I would be very proud.

Amazing

"Euro" (and I mean that in a nice way!).me too! i love it nice wide tires, hunkered down and just plain mean looking! good to see you got it going

Thanks for the comments! I believe I may have posted a couple pics back when I bought that one (three years ago now), but it's the first time I post any pics since I really started working on it.

It's made with road racing in mind. The large wheels are a consequence of my choice of brakes. 6-piston Wilwoods up front (with a 1 1/8" piston master cylinder and no booster, that's going to need some attention - hydroboost in the drawers).

Right now, here are the pros :
- The ride itself is a bit smoother than I expected, and the power steering is perfect (Not too assisted).
- the hydraulic clutch is a dream. So light I can push it with my hand (that's how I set it up).
- I was scared the clutch disk might prove street-unfriendly. It doesn't.
- Noise is really down to an acceptable level now. I'm not going to look for a radio just yet, but being able to talk to your passenger, or to some one outside the car, is nice. Enjoying the sound of the car with all windows rolled down, is even better.


...and cons :
- my rear leaf springs sagged a lot. My car lost 2 inches on the left and 1.75 on the right, in one day. Possible explanation : Heat treatment on Mopar Performance springs is worthless. I will have to have them rearched with an extra leaf early September.
- my firewall is a bit flexible around the clutch master cylinder area, it will need a reinforcement to make shifts more precise.


The emblem down the fender is a "Hurst-equipped" plastic emblem.

I REALLY was one week short for the Euronationals. But that was a big week indeed...

wow 6 piston calipers, sweet, so....just how big are those steam rollers for tires that make the pavement flat? ,man those are some meats!

drewcrane wrote:wow 6 piston calipers, sweet, so....just how big are those steam rollers for tires that make the pavement flat? ,man those are some meats!

Those are 245/40x19 front, 275/35x19 rears.
Rear tire clearance is one inch tire-to-quarter, 3/4" tire to leaf spring left side, with a little less (1/8") tire-to-quarter on the right side.

Front tire clearance (tire tread lower front fender on turns) is less than one inch, but OK. Plenty of tire-to-frame rail clearance with the AlterK. I may yet lower the front a bit, once I have sorted a little exhaust line ground clearance issue.

Tires are Dunlop SP Sport Maxx. Not my first choice, but the Bridgestones I wanted seemed to exist only on internet...

They seem to work fine though. I haven't been able to break traction yet (not that I've deliberately tried hard, but I will next week-end).

that is quite the set up , go have fun and try to break those loose i dare ya!

yep thats tuff

Just one more picture to close this season : I was on the Dijon racetrack yesterday. I had to use a piece of cardboard to block off airflow to the lower third of the radiator core, just to heat the oil a little on the road.

Temperature was -2°C at the beginning of the day.
Snow and some small patches of ice on the track for the first hour.

All in all, a fun day, until it started snowing again. It snowed and rained all the way home

Very brave!

How did it run? You told me it was running a little rich at low speed? Do you have a O2 bung in the collector(s)? Did the cold temp make a difference in the engine's performance? Yes, VERY BRAVE to take it out in those cold slippery conditions! Nice pic, your R/T looks wicked fast! (It's also nice to see the beemer n the rear!!)

airfuelEddie wrote:How did it run? You told me it was running a little rich at low speed? Do you have a O2 bung in the collector(s)? Did the cold temp make a difference in the engine's performance? Yes, VERY BRAVE to take it out in those cold slippery conditions! Nice pic, your R/T looks wicked fast! (It's also nice to see the beemer n the rear!!)

Ran beautifully on the track. I don't have the WBO2 probe installed at the moment, I took it out a while back and didn't put it back on (I needed everything firmly held for the rally in September, and didn't want loose accessories hanging around). I've been wondering about the cold weather affecting performance. I probably should have changed jets a couple sizes up (cold = denser air), but my spare jets were sitting on the shelf back home when I thought of it. The only mod I could do was to switch the secondary carb spring (I was using the road carb, which was a good thing, I don't think I could have driven home with the double-pumper).

I was a litle wary at first, with the snow and summer tires, but after a few laps, everything was definitely fine.
Went to 150 mph on the straight line, probably could have gone more, but I still like to have at least 200 meters to brake...I know I have to work on that, but not on a cold winter day!

And it was not too shabby in the turns.
While some of the smaller road rockets did pass me (mostly VWs, one Alpine A310 with a well-tuned chassis, that Alpina B10 in the background, one Elise), some much lighter cars (Alpine A110, 1 ton less than the Chally) ended up going through the gravel pit after passing me. I love those tires, I can really feel the limit driving through corners.
All cars were passed again in the straight line.
I only lost control twice (stayed on course once, stayed on the track but stalled the second time). That was at the end of the morning, when the wet track was starting to freeze again.

I did all the track with 4 gear changes. (4th to 3rd at the end of the straight line, 3rd to 2nd before a sharp left turn, back to 3rd right after that, all the rest in 3rd and 4th during the straight line.
I tried using the 5th once (when I was past 6300 RPM in 4th), and it still acelerated a little, but not that much. Better stay in 4th.

I have a heavy vibration in the rear-end when I accelerate at full charge in 4th, though. I guess the rear-end nose angle is not good.

I can't say it ran very well on the way home, with the heavy rain and the big scoop. Soaked air filter, even my oil breather filter was wet, and there was water condensing in my valve cover breathers!
Time for an oil change...

Thanks for the play by play Fabian! I was "imagining" your car as I read it. VERY exciting! Wow a ton less in weight, I see why those cars corner with such amazing speed. No weight to break the grip loose! LOL, Yeah I was thinking the same thing, about the colder conditions affecting your carbs performance with denser aircharge. But, with the WB sensor in, you can see for sure. I understand your race configuration and not wanting any loose equipment to place a damper on your fun! Does your WB have a data logging feature? I really like Daves setup, and with some spare parts it's economical and very accurate. And with a data logging feature you can change/drill the Airbleeds without really screwing up your whole fuel curve. I think it might not be the Jets that need changed. The whole fuel curve would then be different. It would be interesting to see what the beginning of the curve looks like and the transitions from primary to secondary. This may be where you're 'problem' is? Glad to hear it ran strong! 150 is flyin!!! I bet Drew has wood!LOL Time for some Fresh Motul, No.

nice pic and wow its friggin cold over there i will use that pic as my new desktop

What a great day, thanks for sharing your thoughts. Seems you are really in-tune with your Chally.

What do you think the water intrusion was caused by on the drive home? My first thought was spray coming up from the front tires.

Jon wrote: What do you think the water intrusion was caused by on the drive home? My first thought was spray coming up from the front tires.

I have no idea, the wheel wells are sealed off though. Lots of mist made it through the radiator core (the water temp inside the radiator never went past 45°C (around 110°F), and loads of rain through the scoop.


I forgot to add, the reason I mentioned the gear changes, and the reason for doing almost all the track in 3rd, is that when I tried using 2nd gear on a few other corners, it was a lot harder to keep the car on the track, and not a bit faster. I have more than enough torque anyway... This would be different in summer.

Great picture Febien, it will be my desktop too. You must have really good grip with these tires if even with temp close to 0 deg you were able to corner with your Chally, my tires allow my to corner only when it is dry and hot, even small rain is big challenge. My car is sitting in the garage now as we have a lot of snow recently, during the winter new wheels and tires should arrive, that should improve the handling a lot then maybe we will meet on the track

Wojpi wrote:Great picture Febien, it will be my desktop too. You must have really good grip with these tires if even with temp close to 0 deg you were able to corner with your Chally,

Tires are Dunlop SP Sport Maxx - they're in the "Max Performance Summer Tires" on TireRack.com, with the following comment :

"The SP Sport Maxx tires are designed to be exhilarating in the dry and reassuring in the wet, but they are not intended to be driven in near-freezing temperatures, through snow or on ice."

I like them a lot. No bad surprises (as I've seen with some yokohamas for example), easy to keep under control, great grip.
Not so great under the rain and snow, but for that, nothing beats a real rain tire (Continental and Kumho both have good ones).

I don't know how they'll handle when they get old, but I have a feeling they'll get old fast next season.

hey ,fbernard where can i get a sweet "french connection" windshield banner? thay is sooo cool!

fbernard wrote:Just one more picture to close this season : I was on the Dijon racetrack yesterday. I had to use a piece of cardboard to block off airflow to the lower third of the radiator core, just to heat the oil a little on the road.

Temperature was -2°C at the beginning of the day.
Snow and some small patches of ice on the track for the first hour.

All in all, a fun day, until it started snowing again. It snowed and rained all the way home

Thanks for pointing that out Drew. French Connection.

I like the way your car sits in this picture Fabian. Were you unloading the rear going into a corner?

As for handling with that attitude, is it acceptable or is it too much weight going to the front-end.

Do Challengers work best with a lower "squat" in the rear? Seems mine originally sat low in back, the Challenger in VP appears to also.

Challengers tended to sit low at the back when at speed due to the extreme pressures of lift at the front under the grille and hood edge. About 375lbs of front lift at 100mph if I remember.
Under acceleration you have all that weight transfer as well of course.

The original rear springs also sag quite quickly with age and tended to be a little on the soft side to prevent oversteer.

Jon wrote:

fbernard wrote:Were you unloading the rear going into a corner?

No, it's almost going out of a corner in that pic, so the throttle is probably close to 80%...
Here's another picture, when I'm braking at the end of the straight line. You can see there's not much weight transfer, since I have pretty stiff springs (and as I said earlier, I'm not braking too much too, I'll wait for warmer weather to learn the limits of my new brakes ; that Hydratech booster brakes HARD).

The shocks in the rear are not too stiff, but the springs are (I had them rebuilt this summer with one extra full-length leaf). It sits around 1" higher than stock, and does not have a lot of shock travel.
Front is setup for easy compression, slow rebound, but springs are 550lbs...

I will probably go to lower spring rate coils next year, to have a little more weight transfer on braking (and just a little bit more comfort on the road too).

I could make the car sit lower (especially with the triangulated 4-link that will replace the leafs this winter), but I'll need to modify my exhaust line, which is too low.

All in all, the car does not roll much in turns (good), but I'd like a little more nose dive when I brake.

A friend of mine put more pics online on the French Mopar Owner's Club website, there :
http://www.mopar-owners-club.com/index. ... itstart=12

including a few pics of the other cars, the paddocks, the ice skating ring...

About the windshield 'French Connection' sticker, it comes from this other club I'm in, mostly drag racing guys, with a small, but dedicated handful of people who like corners as well... http://www.frenchconnectionteam.com/modules/news/
I'll check the price if you want one...

Very sweet Fbernard. Looks like a lot of fun.
Bob

i want one,it would be sweet ,let me know!

mostly drag racing guys, with a small, but dedicated,i seem to know alot of guys that drag race too,and a small number of people that just dont like to go around corners,one other thing what is that badge on your door i have seen that badge before on one other car in a recent automobile its a picture of a new chally that looks to be racing and it too has a simular badge only the front end lookis they ran into the wall but were still racing , just what does that badge on your door say? just courious

drewcrane wrote: just what does that badge on your door say? just courious

Those are the 'France Tour Classic' rally decals, I haven't removed them yet.

Here are a couple pics from the Rally, including one from the side where I'm really accelerating hard (and the car is squatting a little on the leaf springs).