A 72 In Progress....Again • 2 • The Dodge Challenger Message Board

by **Jimiboy** » 12 May 2008 8:09

This pic from the left rear... On that pic the scoop looks real "fat" & cool. I see where you aiming with that sharp angle in front of the scoop, it sort of match the angle in the back of the scoop, but i wonder how it would look with a little bit less angle? (With a bigger "gap" sort of?)

I can imagine when you stand up on normal height this gap sort of looks smaller then when you bend down to take the photo(?) Just a thought do. Hope you do want comments & don't mind! :roll:

(It does look nice) :thumbsup:

by **Moparman1972** » 12 May 2008 11:19

I never mind comments!

The scoop is 2 inches tall, and I cut the angles to match the back angle that was on the fiberglass section. I wanted to keep the scoop away from looking like a big square open hole, which is what the snorkel would have looked like that is supposed to go on that hood (ugly as sin).

It isnt welded together, so I'll try some less angled pieces on there and see how they look.

Thanks for your opinion!

by **Moparman1972** » 18 May 2008 0:08

So, the Challenger has been registered since Tuesday now! What a thrill to finally drive it! It was my first car and its been a real long term project, so I'm psyched to be riding around in it.

Everything imaginable leaked, except for water. A brake line let go, the transmission cooler threads on the radiator were incorrect and squirted fluid, the power steering box leaks out the shaft, and I was choking myself on exhaust after the headers loosened up from heating up. Once I was able to park it on some pavement at my work, it was easy to identify all the leaks, and a week of sacrificed lunch breaks have cured everything thats curable.

She smokes like crazy, and that may have something to do with the thinner 10W-40 Im running, but valve guide seals are definitely a necessity.

Air shocks were also necessary. Twice I pulled my mufflers off in the driveway by snagging them on some protruding rocks. Almost left em off, too, with that sound! Installed them this afternoon and the ride height is finally right.

The ride is smoother than I could have hoped for, and the looks are worth every hour of work put into it. I'm getting waved through at stopsigns by people left and right! Challengers apparently have the right of way around here.

Thanks to everyone on this message board. You guys were a tremendous help, and I've learned more about E-bodies than I ever needed! (Honestly, who knew there were so many different kinds of mirrors?) I think my ambitions would have undone me but for the help from the board, and I really appreciate it.

by **drewcrane** » 18 May 2008 1:35

dude you have put alot of time , congrats i thik=nk your car look sweet and man what alot of work to get it to this point , sweet! :thumbsup:

by **Eddie** » 18 May 2008 4:53

Congrats!

by **Jimiboy** » 18 May 2008 18:17

That car is really mean looking Moparman! :thumbsup:

The result with the scoop painted is very nice! Brutal with the satin black finish... Looks like a killer from the latest Tarantino movie, don't remember what titel it had... Congrat's!

by **Moparman1972** » 18 May 2008 20:32

Haha, that movie Death Proof, he had those flat black cars, the Nova and the Charger. The Challenger was a gorgeous white '70. I almost cried when the grille accordioned up after the first hit of that car chase. (Had just spent some 400 dollars on getting a grille together for mine)

Oh, by the way, I did try the scoop with less rake in the front and it just looked weird. Ditto for the scoop being a bit taller, as its not wide enough. I'll have to get a good picture of it, because it looks so small and short. Not so when you're sitting in the driver's seat!

by **Jimiboy** » 19 May 2008 10:26

Moparman1972 wrote:Haha, that movie Death Proof, he had those flat black cars, the Nova and the Charger. The Challenger was a gorgeous white '70. I almost cried when the grille accordioned up after the first hit of that car chase. (Had just spent some 400 dollars on getting a grille together for mine)

Yeah, that is the movie i was talking about, pretty sad to see all hollywood movies with total demolition of classic cars... :cry:

Moparman1972 wrote:Oh, by the way, I did try the scoop with less rake in the front and it just looked weird. Ditto for the scoop being a bit taller, as its not wide enough. I'll have to get a good picture of it, because it looks so small and short. Not so when you're sitting in the driver's seat!

I believe you
You have the exact right look now Moparman. (Mean!) :s003:

by **Moparman1972** » 19 May 2008 23:25

Fixed my smoking problems! Turns out there was no check valve left in my PCV, and a less-than-adequate shield under the valve cover. It was drowning the carb in oil, especially at high rpms. Had to adjust the idle to compensate for the lack of oil once I got things straightened out.

Also got the spoiler on! And made a piece of metal and chamfered it to make my own hood chrome strip. The prices had me tearing my hair out.

by **drewcrane** » 19 May 2008 23:39

nice , nice , nice , i like the rear spoiler , and yes any hand fabricate is way cool in my book, there is a mopar muscle mag out 2 months ago a guy couldnt find a decent grill for his cuda , so he cut out barb wire from the old torn down fence,lol very creative , and effective he made the cover of the mag ! keep up the good work i know that sounds redundant but its true it looks cool man go for it! :nod:

by **Moparman1972** » 31 Jul 2008 22:16

So I've been using the car as a daily driver since May, with no major problems up until today.

Alternator bracket broke and I had to weld it back together.

I took it to its first car show two weeks ago, and it didnt win anything of course, but I picked up a 440 for 100 bucks :s017:

from an older gentleman that didnt care much about the money. People like him are what keeps rodding going, and I hope I'm able to give back as much to the hobby when I get older.

Been learning bondo as I go, too, slapping some on and sanding it and painting it all again before monday, when I have to drive it again. It's smoothing out nicely, and I'll soon hit it with spot putty and paint the whole thing for real.

by **Moparman1972** » 17 Oct 2008 0:07

The Chally is officially off the road as of today.

15,000 miles in 5 months and it ran beautiful! I broke the alternator bracket once, broke an alternator bolt 3 days later, cost me 2 belts and stranded me at UCONN. No other problems though! Ran smooth, drove smoother and I could smoke anything that pulled up next to me!

Cost me an arm and a leg to drive it every day. :s005:

So worth it. :twisted:

This winter it will be getting finished as I should have done before it went on the road. The interior is finished now, and the metalwork is patched, so I will sand off the Rustoleum paint job and complete the bodywork.

I'm thinking gloss white, I love vanishing point! And it's as far as I can get from Rustoleum black!

by **Moparman1972** » 01 Feb 2009 17:35

I originally started off this winter intending to build a 400 by springtime for the Challenger. I was actually about to send the motor out last Monday, when I got a call from a guy who had seen my Challenger at a car show. He ended up selling me two big block motors for 200 bucks. He had had them in a garage for close to 20 years, and they are in beautiful shape. He oiled them and made sure to turn them every year.

I picked them up yesterday, and didn't even closely inspect them until I got them in my garage last night. One is a 400 motor, in better shape than the block I originally started tearing down to rebuild. The other is a 440 with a 72 casting date and a forged crank! I have done some quick rethinking and am picking the motor with a bigger number to build lol.

As a kinda neat nostalgic thing, the 440 heads had some beautiful chrome Direct Connection valve covers! My Dad went nuts over them; he had them on his 71 Charger as a kid.

Can't wait to get the 440 Stealth heads and start messing with them. This will be a fun experiment for Eddie and I.

by **Eddie** » 01 Feb 2009 23:05

Wow, you lucked out man! It's always nice to have well taken care of rebuildable core instead of picking a rusty piece of junk that has already been overbored .060 and no main caps. I would build the 440 with the largest stroker kit you can afford. 4.25 Crank 2.2 rod journals 6.860 Hemi length rods,(for a lighter piston), piston height and deck height configured for a zero deck piston and block deck height,(The machinist can work this out for you) 543 cubes, Internal oiling, but check with both the supplier and machinist you have to confirm all this, especially the Internal oiling. Pretty damn stout! :thumbsup:

I think Ian is building a similar combo. :thumbsup:

by **Moparman1972** » 02 Feb 2009 4:51

Eddie half your technical posts leave me in the dust in the first few words! :s006:

For starters, what is internal oiling?....

I know top ends pretty well, but the bottom end of a motor has always seemed like scary voodoo stuff.

by **Dale1035** » 02 Feb 2009 13:49

Moparman
You are really doing a great job on the challenger. I can tell that you truely love the car. Keep us posted on that 440 engine. :lol:

by **Eddie** » 02 Feb 2009 14:41

Moparman1972 wrote:Eddie half your technical posts leave me in the dust in the first few words! For starters, what is internal oiling?....

I know top ends pretty well, but the bottom end of a motor has always seemed like scary voodoo stuff.

Internal factory oiling. The pickup tube is located in the factory spot. The block has a machined 'boss' (raised area of casting metal), located at the rear of the block corner where the oil pump is mounted. The pump pickup tube is screwed into this 'boss'. If the stroke is increased, it places the rod big end and fastener precariously close to this pickup tube and 'boss' area. Sometimes there is simply no clearance available and the only other option is to plug the internal pickup tube opening inside the block where the tube screws into., and utilize an external pickup point. This bypasses the oil feed tube pickup point and the oil is pumped through the pump directly into the block from the pan and a AN-12 or similar sized hose feeds into the pump cover and is pumped into the block oil galleys, thereby gaining the required clearance for the rod fasteners/big end of the connecting rod. You should have a minimum of around .030 clearance. I used a 4.15 stroke crank in the 400 block I used with and 440 rods and had adequate clearance but if you want the maximum amount of cubes which is around the 540" mark with a 440 block then this area should be carefully checked, another thing is cost. The external oiling systems are NOT cheap. Internal is much less cost, no leaks from the hose ends to worry about.(Although many guys use external oiling with no problems) Hope this clears that up. :lol:

by **Eddie** » 02 Feb 2009 14:51

This is the area I am referring to. Bottom ends have always been my specialty. :lol:

(The white thing sticking in the pickup tube hole is a pipe cleaner)

by **Moparman1972** » 02 Feb 2009 17:17

Thanks Eddie, I understand now. I am probably going to use the stock forged crank if it measures up good. I am going to buy and balance new rods and higher compression pistons, but other than that, all my tinkering will be with the top end, I think. If I get a big raise, I'd consider buying a stroker crank, but that isnt gonna happen the way the airline industry is going right now!

by **Eddie** » 02 Feb 2009 17:52

Moparman1972 wrote:Thanks Eddie, I understand now. I am probably going to use the stock forged crank if it measures up good. I am going to buy and balance new rods and higher compression pistons, but other than that, all my tinkering will be with the top end, I think. If I get a big raise, I'd consider buying a stroker crank, but that isnt gonna happen the way the airline industry is going right now!

Yeah, thats a tough career. I dont envy you. At least 'we' are helping out with Dave flying out over here in Sept. :lol:

The main thing to do is have build plan and stick to it as you sound like you are doing. 550 H.P. and the same torque is easily accomplished with a set of good heads, nice valvetrain, decent streetable cam but thumps a bit at idle. :lol:

by **Moparman1972** » 02 Feb 2009 19:06

550?

I was gonna be happy with 450!

The stuff at 440source is dirt cheap, so I had planned on purchasing their roller rockers and a few other things besides the heads. I plan on putting a mild cam in it at first and seeing how the fuel economy ends up. I want to make the power in ways other than long duration, so I can afford to drive this when I'm done!

by **Eddie** » 02 Feb 2009 19:26

Moparman1972 wrote:550? I was gonna be happy with 450!

The stuff at 440source is dirt cheap, so I had planned on purchasing their roller rockers and a few other things besides the heads. I plan on putting a mild cam in it at first and seeing how the fuel economy ends up. I want to make the power in ways other than long duration, so I can afford to drive this when I'm done!

The somewhere in between 450-550 is cool. You can achieve 450 with mostly stock parts, even heads. I would think long and hard before I bought the 440 source alluminum rockers. I dont think the geometry is there. I would buy a set of Comp Cams chrome moly units. Great geometry, decent price, adjustable for solid or hydraulic, bulletproof with hi-po springs. I'm not a big fan of alloy rockers. They need to be cycled as all alluminum parts that take that kind of abuse. Like rods, rockers ect..The steel ones dont. There isnt a lot to be gained power wise, unless you use pedastel type rockers like the Chevy&Ford guys use. The Mopar shaft rocker system is very strong, and with the rocker only moving 30-40 degrees on the shaft when the engine is running, there isnt a lot of friction either. The MAIN reason is the adjustability and geometry when using large springs and a LOT of lift say anything over .600 lift. Without getting too complicated, there is another advantage, and that is the ratio at which the rocker body has. Stock is 1.5 for both exhaust and Intake. Some modified,(serious), engines use a ratio of up to 2.1!! This will open the valve much longer and quicker. It also wears out parts faster. There is a tradeoff in power production and reliabilty. Lest he has a TURBO!! :lol:

by **Moparman1972** » 15 Feb 2009 18:43

I bit the bullet and ordered quite a few things for the car today.

Metal Trunk Lid
Headliner
Front Bumper
4 speed pedal assembly
partial drivers floorpan

Also looking hard at the AlterKtion suspension kits and XV frame connectors.

I am up in the air between keeping the fiberglass fenders and hood and re-fitting them or going back to the original steel. I'd have to cut and patch the metal fenders to work with the 70 grille, because I definitely want to keep that. I'd also have to suffer with a flat hood, because I am not rich enough to spend 800 for the privilege of a rallye hood. Oh well, maybe metal fenders and a fiberglass hood. :s006:

It's going to be a while before I decide that now.

So much for just sanding it down to paint it......

by **Moparman1972** » 06 Mar 2009 13:24

Anyone have an opinion on tubular lower radiator supports?

I was looking at the one from XV motorsports. Or maybe making my own, they look very simple. Mine is bent from the previous owner trying to tow from it.

Getting my XV subframe connectors in today!

by **dave-r** » 06 Mar 2009 14:20

It is down to how well the replacement for the K-frame holds the chassis together. Which is what XV does and probably why they sell that part.

On the stock chassis the frame rails are held together by several parts.
The k-frame is the main structure. The radiator support also ties the two inner fenders together. Even the bumper bolts the frame rails together. So the bottom of the radiator support does not need to be that structural on a stock chassis.

I have never made any secret of the fact that I think the whole XV thing is OTT. Unless you race the car on circuits in competition that is.

by **Eddie** » 06 Mar 2009 14:22

Moparman1972 wrote:Anyone have an opinion on tubular lower radiator supports?

I was looking at the one from XV motorsports. Or maybe making my own, they look very simple. Mine is bent from the previous owner trying to tow from it.

Getting my XV subframe connectors in today!

You should contact Christer, Dylan. He has a friend who makes them from steel I think, it looked like first rate work too! I cant remember the post though, maybe someone else?

by **Moparman1972** » 06 Mar 2009 15:30

I believe Christer's friend was making replacement pieces for the sides of the radiator support. Maybe I am mistaken.

Anyways, my problem is with the lower section, where the hood latch support piece connects at the bottom. It looks like a V from the top due to a drunk guy, a chain, and a truck.

by **dave-r** » 06 Mar 2009 15:44

Yeah mine had a little damage too but a bit of work with a hammer stopped it missbehavin'. :twisted:

by **Moparman1972** » 18 Apr 2009 21:23

Well it has been a while since I have had a digital camera, so here are some new pictures. She is all apart again :tears:

Started taking the side glass out today. Boy what a toll that was taking on my nerves! Only got the passenger door glass out, but did it nice and slow, no problems.

The engine still isn't pulled, but the wiring is all over my bench and getting fixed. Once the engine is out, it's getting rolled out of the workbay and the interior and firewall is all getting sandblasted.

by **Moparman1972** » 27 Apr 2009 13:13

Here's some more pictures after the heater box was taken out of the way. You can now see the extent of the rust in the cowl. The passenger side looks like it held up well, but just to the right of the accelerator pedal, it is wafer-thin and holed all over the place.

The rear window channel has heavy surface rust, but it is surprisingly not rusted through! I thought for sure I'd have to patch it.

The engine came out last night, actually, so I'll post more pictures later.