Ian's 70 se • 2 • The Dodge Challenger Message Board

by **ianandjess** » 09 Mar 2008 12:09

i managed to score a 440 six pack for good price $3600 it needs a rebuild but its just up the road so its the cheapest ill find it needs a few bits but still a bargain so ill have to keep an eye out for a tranny & mounts , brackets etc i might make a 512 stroker i think depends on shipping cost of parts the purchase price seems quite good from 440source & summit any other suggestions would be appreciated thanks
cheers ian

by **ianandjess** » 09 Mar 2008 12:12

does anyone know if it will fit under my flat hood with the six pack set up on it , it also comes with eddie performer intake
cheers ian

by **Eddie** » 09 Mar 2008 14:16

Congrats Ian! Yeah a stroker kit sounds sweet! Great deal on that 440sixpack engine, those are getting very rare in complete form. If Dodge made 440SP engines in Challengers with R/T hoods,(flat) from the factory then why wouldnt this fit? I mean wouldnt the underhood bracing be the same with a R/T hood compared to a regular 'flat' hood?

by **ianandjess** » 10 Mar 2008 12:20

good point eddie i guess if they fit under the shaker hood as you have that being a flat hood then it should fit ok i would think but with the r/t hood i would expect the power bulge would give a bit more clearance i guess ill find out but my hood is not perfect so if i have to cut a hole in it & put a t/a scoop over it :nod:

then that would suit me just fine im sure someone would make them for steel hoods
ive got most of the sheetmetal work done now just a few easy bits to go then time for the body filler to make sure shes straight mostly its all good a few panel repairs & patch panels but there wont be much bog (bondo) in her so im quite happy about that ill post some more pics when i get a bit further along

by **ianandjess** » 10 Mar 2008 12:32

ok guys an engine question as ive never built a 440 sixpack before if i go for a 512 stroker with 906 casting heads with a mild port job i.e. bowl blended deburred & port matched approx 9.5;1 compression ,headers ,2 3/4 or 3" twin exhaust 323:1 diff ratio
what sort of cam package would suit i was thinking
http://store.summitracing.com/partdetai ... toview=sku
that would be ok do you think its to aggressive
any advice would be appreciated thanks
cheers ian

by **dave-r** » 10 Mar 2008 12:57

Err. The R/T hood is not flat Eddie. It has a considerable bulge to it.

I don't know for sure but I think you will not get a standard flat challenger hood to close over the six pack air filter.
It sticks up higher than the level of the fenders.

by **dave-r** » 10 Mar 2008 13:03

ianandjess wrote:i was thinking
http://store.summitracing.com/partdetai ... toview=sku
that would be ok do you think its to aggressive
any advice would be appreciated thanks
cheers ian

The bigger the inches the milder any cam will seem.

I would say that Summit cam is no more agressive duration wise than the stock six pack cam. I would go one step bigger.

by **Eddie** » 10 Mar 2008 13:52

Thanks for clearing that up Dave, I meant the underside though, the underhood bracing? Will it clear a hi-rise dual plane? Are the hoods the same air cleaner clearance versus a standard non r/t flat hood? The second part of your answer helps clear that up. A 'sleepr 512 with standard hood would be kinda cool though. . Ian, I think that cam would be much to small for 512 cube motor, as Dave stated. I was thinking something like a 540 Lift 255@.050 with that many cubes you need to keep the intake valve open a little longer. Cam Help @ Comp Cams can aid you in selecting a great cam with that combo. I also dont think the stock heads will give you what you need either. Just make sure it's an internal oiling Stroker kit because they are much cheaper than an external system. I would want to know what that bore is on that 440 SixPack block as well, I wouldnt overbore it too much, no more than .030 if at all possible. Complete multi-carbed engines like that are very valuable to someone restoring a V code MoPar!

by **dave-r** » 10 Mar 2008 14:10

airfuelEddie wrote:Thanks for clearing that up Dave, I meant the underside though, the underhood bracing? Will it clear a hi-rise dual plane? Are the hoods the same air cleaner clearance versus a standard non r/t flat hood?

The R/T hood has more clearence. Braces or otherwise. Even with the bulge you only have about a half inch clearence on a six pack. The standard hood is about 1.5 inches lower?

Just going from memory here.

by **Eddie** » 10 Mar 2008 15:09

I see, thanks Dave. :thumbsup:

Looks like Ian is gonna have to use a fresh air package! :mrgreen:

by **patrick** » 11 Mar 2008 4:35

Ian. That car is coming along very well. Nice deal on the 440, SIXPACK. What about keeping that cutting wheel away from your original flat hood? Put it away somewhere dry, and get one of those fresh air, re-pop, T/A type hood's?

But, if you have to cut that hood, make it a SHAKER. :s003:

The shaker will give you the clearence you need. Cheer's Back to You! Pat

by **ianandjess** » 11 Mar 2008 12:30

thanks for the input guys i think ill price up a t/a repro hood a shaker would be my 1st choice but would cost to much at this stage it will probably be an option later on
thanks for the comments on the cam ill investigate further what i need
as for the heads i think i better stick with these for now they can always be swapped when i have enough of the readies im pushing the budget i bit as it is but ill keep it in mind
anything i can do to make gains without spending to far over the top is my main priority for now i.e. cam , stroker kit as it needs rebuild anyway ,the heads have new valves just not installed so i think it will work out cheaper to do these heads but if they need a lot of work ill look at a set of eddies
im going to pick it up this weekend so ill be able to have a good look at it then but the heads & block have been crack tested & are fine its also a std bore so ill only bore it to the min required size
cheers ian

by **roger** » 24 Mar 2008 8:50

Hey Ian - Roger here from Pembie. The SE has certainly come a long way since I saw it almost 2 years ago. So has your daughter's VC - well done on both counts. I was talking to a fellow I know over in Kojonup and low and behold - he tells me that this bloke called Ian in Denmark bought his 440 - a small mopar world eh?

Next time I'm in your neck of the woods (excuse the pun) I'll have to call round for a coupla coldies and a natter. I won't have the missus with me next time , so should be able to spend a bit longer talking cars.
Good to see you have settled in to this forum so well and the members have been so helpful for you (as they have for me in the past too).

I won't go into it, but I've been away from my project for far too long, however I now have a new "lease on life" and will be getting stuck in again soon.
Cheers...Roger :thumbsup:

by **dave-r** » 24 Mar 2008 9:33

Great to see you back Roger. I was wondering if you were OK? I hope you are mate.

by **Jimiboy** » 24 Mar 2008 10:20

Looking forward to the final result, your work looks solid Ian! Keep it up! :thumbsup:

by **ianandjess** » 25 Mar 2008 13:02

good to hear from you roger yea i think i got a good deal on the 440 but it seams as though i just keep finding more things to spend money on with this project but itll be worth it in the end im sure
i got a bullet proof gearbox to from a guy in perth so once ive rebuilt the 440 the drive train will be sorted
cheers ian

by **ianandjess** » 25 Mar 2008 13:16

thanks for the encouragement jimi ill add more pics when ive done a bit more its slow going just doing bits on weekends or after work
cheers ian

by **ianandjess** » 08 May 2008 13:26

the 512 stroker kit & stealth heads from 440 source came today now i have to save some dough to buy the rest of the parts i need to finish the engine build & pull my finger out & get the body work done
cheers ian

by **dave-r** » 08 May 2008 13:32

That will make the car a tool and a half. :biggrin:

by **christer** » 08 May 2008 15:44

ianandjess wrote:the 512 stroker kit & stealth heads from 440 source came today

You lucky b*****d.

It sounds like a healthy kit to me. :nod:

Congrats.

by **Eddie** » 08 May 2008 18:47

Congrats Ian, any pics of your crankshaft, I'll show you mine if you show me your's :lol:

Mine has an undercut to the counterweights thats a bit unusual, just wanted to see if your's looked the same. It's also a 4.15 Stroke with b-mains. As opposed to your 4.25 stroke with RB mains. Your using a 440 block I assume. Thanks Ian

by **Eddie** » 08 May 2008 19:49

Another, Oh I forgot, 6 bolt flange, drilled for a bronze pilot bushing which I need to get one and tap it in for possible manual tranny apps. This Crank is manufactured by PEP,(Perf. Engine Prod.)

by **Jimiboy** » 08 May 2008 21:21

I should not ask in this thread, sorry. But... I wonder since i haven't yet seen my mains in the 340.. Are there 4 bolted maincaps on the 340? I thought since it is a more performance engine of the smallblocks it should be maybe? Very curios.. Hope you tell me about this... :s013:

by **Eddie** » 08 May 2008 21:46

No. The T/A blocks had 'provisions' for machining another set of holes for 4 bolt main attachment because the bulkheads where cast thicker than production blocks. 'Regular' 340's had 2 bolt bulkheads. Milodon used to sell a kit for installation of 4 bolt mains onto 340/360 2 bolt blocks but I dont know if they still make it, and not all blocks could utilize them, it depended on how thick your bulkheads are Jimi.(Some machinists I have talked to dont recommend it due to the angled attachment)

by **Jimiboy** » 08 May 2008 22:02

I new you should have the answer :lol:

Thanks! I thought the 340 might be better then 360 to build a strong perf engine, but i guess it is not then :p:

by **ianandjess** » 11 May 2008 3:16

thanks for the compliments guys , dave was the tool you were thinking of a blunt object :lol:

eddie here are some pics of the crank it has a chamfered edge on the counter weights im keeping it wrapped up till im ready for assembley
cheers ian

by **Eddie** » 11 May 2008 14:18

Thanks Ian, it 'appears' they look identical except for the nice etched balance specs they put on your counterweights,(nice touch), I didnt even get a balance bob weight spec on mine! It's good to know that information in case you want to substitute rods, pins, ect I coated mine with CRC until assembly, (it's a rust preventitive), but Brandon never ceases to amaze me! I wish I would have used them instead but I needed a machinist to do the block work. My next stroker kit WILL come from 440source because I found an excellent machinist but he lives very far away, I guess I'll pay a little extra for the shipping. Ian if you could please do me another favor, did they send the rods to you with any instructions or specifications on the connecting rods? Such as pre-installed height of the fasteners? Weight of the big end/small end? Overall weight? My rods were in a cheap heavy paper/cardboard box with sawdust and other 'foreign matter' inside. I always clean my parts carefully before assembly even if new but this was ridiculous. I also paid a little more than 440source's price but got back 50.00 on a coupon he had in a mopar magazine. At first he said no way! I told him I would contact the magazine then Kevin sent me a 50.00 check the next day. :wink:

by **ianandjess** » 12 May 2008 4:29

ok eddie i hope this helps i took a few more pics there were also a couple of instruction sheets i didnt photograph but they were your basic standardised info
cheers ian

by **ianandjess** » 09 Aug 2008 14:32

finally some time to get the body sorted out ive just started 2 weeks holiday so if all goes well i should get the body finished & painted & hopefully the interior back in , i still need a few engine parts so that wont happen yet but as long as i get the body done ill be a very happy fella
cheers ian

by **Eddie** » 09 Aug 2008 14:47

Good to hear it Ian! The pistons are from the same manufacturer as mine, Keith Black U.M. tool 2618 billet. I see that you are using a dished design for both quench and lower comp. ratio. I used flat tops. Our rods look identical with ARP 2000 fasteners. My rods were also dirty. Check the H-Beam cavity, mine were filled with small metal/bronze shavings and dirt. Now all I need is my neigbors old, rusty, 73 318 Challenger for cheap and we would have almost the same projects!:lol: