70 R/T new to town

by **1178** » 28 Oct 2005 20:45

Hey all,
I am new to the site and just wanted to say hello. I have a 70 Challenger R/T 383 Magnum 727 Torquefilte (bout to change to an A-833) burnt orange with same interior and black vynal top. the challenger is a factory sleeper (Flat hood and not R/T on the trunk) also has no wood grain panels in the doors from factory. have pics but not posted. anyway. talk to yall later!!

Drew

by **dave-r** » 28 Oct 2005 21:43

That is very interesting and unusual. We had a discussion a while back about if the woodgrain was optional or not on the doors.

The flat hood shouldn't have happened. But I always thought it could.

It would be VERY interesting to see a copy of the fender tag (even better the build sheet) so i can see how they instructed the assembly line workers to build it this way.

by **1178** » 29 Oct 2005 1:44

The fender tag doesnt really tell much other than to add stripe then delete stripe. I have been searching for the build sheet but have been unsucessful in finding one. My father owned the car for the past 28 years and the guy that he bought it from was his boss the years that he didnt own it so he has been with it from the begining. The guy ordered it to be a sleeper and that is all that I know. He is still located in Huntington Beach CA but I have yet to reach him. :shock:

by **71 pacecar** » 29 Oct 2005 2:38

Hi are you sure it's a r/t car if the vin reads js23n0xxxxxx then it is an r/t but if it reads jh23L0xxxxxx then it's a 383 two barrel,non r/t or the hood was changed. p.s nice car .

by **Alaskan_TA** » 29 Oct 2005 4:48

It may be a JH23N0 Challenger as well? You cound get the 383 4-barrel with a flat hood in a non - R/T.

For broadcast sheets check these locations;

Taped to the back side / top of the glove box insert.
Under the front bucket seats in the springs
Inside the bucket seat backs
Under the rear seat bottom
In the rear seat back.
Under the package tray (speaker shelf)
Under the carpet

Please check all of the above locations, it is possible to find as many as five, and quite often one or two are for other cars.

The early build cars did not get the wood grain inserts in the doors. What is the spd (scheduled production date) on your fender tag? Post a photo of the tag if you like, it tells a lot more than just stripes. :nod:

Barry

by **dave-r** » 29 Oct 2005 8:17

Barry you read my mind.

I was thinking it is probably a JH23N0 but didn't want to put "sleepy" off posting by telling him it is probably not an R/T.

Actually Sleepy the JH23N0 is actually a LOT more rare than the common R/T (although it doesn't fetch as much money) so don't be upset if that is what it turns out to be.

Actually off the top of my head I can't think what the differences between a JH23N0 and a JS23N0 would be.

Apart from the badges, hood and tailpipes.

Neither car would have had the body re-enforcement. I guess they would have had the same suspension and brakes?

Would there be any other differences?

by **Alaskan_TA** » 30 Oct 2005 2:03

I agree, there is absolutely nothing wrong with a non R/T "N" code car. You got the high performance 383 with the four barrel and dual exhaust in a "sleeper" package. You rarely see them today, very cool cars. Only 1,480 sold for the US. If it happens to be an A93 Coupe then it is one of six. I would still like to see the tag, these are unusual cars.

Barry

by **fbernard** » 31 Oct 2005 8:33

Just to chime in on this thread, all Challengers delivered new in France in 1970 were JH2XN0B.
I guess the Simca boys though the R/T package would put off the potential buyers or something like that. That's probably why they ordered ugly colors too... They probably thought to sell these to 50ish people with lots of cash.
There was one convertible (mine) and a handful of hardtops (can't remember the exact number, although I have seen the Simca register).
Most have been converted to R/Ts over the years, but I know of at least one that's still stock.

by **1178** » 31 Oct 2005 14:12

It is a JS23NOE car. True R/T. My dad grew new the guy bought it when he bought it then my dad purchaced it from him in 78. it was built in Oct 69 and sold in Nov 69. Guy special ordered it. i will post the fender tag as soon as i find it. I have recently moved and due to the theft of the fendertag off my other challenger i removed this one. i will send soon though

by **1178** » 31 Oct 2005 18:54

the fender tag reads

R11 V1X V68 Y14 END
J25 M21 N41 N42 N85 N95
V1X A62 B51 C16 C55 G33
FK5 H6K4 000 B10 107101
E63 D32 JS23 NOE 118560

let me know if you see something that I do not.

by **1178** » 31 Oct 2005 21:16

Code Description
E63 383-4 Barrel
D32 H-D A-727 TorqueFlite Trans / Some Years A-998
JS23 J = Dodge Challenger S = Special 23 = 2 Door Hardtop
NOE N = 383 330HP OR 335HP 1-4BBL 8 CYL 0 = 1970 E = Los Angeles, CA, USA
118560 Sequence Number '118560'
FK5 Paint Code: Dark Burnt Orange Metallic / Deep Burnt Orange Iri
H6K4 Trim Grade/Style/Color H = High 6 = Vinyl Bucket Seats K4 = Burnt Orange
000 Upper Door Frame: Full Door Panel
B10 Date Built: 11 / 10 / 1969
107101 Order Number: 107101
V1X Roof Type OR Color: Full Vinyl Top - Black
A62 Rallye Instrument Cluster
B51 Power Assisted Brakes
C16 Console w/ Buckets
C55 Bucket Seats
G33 Left Hand Outside Mirror - Manual / Chrome
J25 3 Speed Variable Wipers
M21 Roof Drip Rail Moldings
N41 Duel Exhaust w/o Tips
N42 Chrome Duel Exhaust Tips
N85 Tachometer
N95 Nox Exhaust Emission Control
R11 Music Master Radio AM
V1X Full Vinyl Top - Black
V68 Delete Stripes
Y14 Sold Car 69-71
END End of Codes

http://www.stockmopar.com

by **dave-r** » 31 Oct 2005 22:05

That's really interesting.

But how could it be built with the standard hood?

The guys on the production line would have fitted an R/T hood. So what stopped them? They might have done it by mistake I guess (although that should have been spotted) but if they had been instructed to do that I would like to know how. I don't know of any way they could have been.

You couldn't order a car like this from the dealer order form from what I can tell.

It is a mystery that is sure.

It would be great to get to the bottom of this.

Thanks very much for posting all the tag info. This is going to be a tough nut to crack.

by **1178** » 31 Oct 2005 22:23

i am trying to contact the orig owner again hopefully he will call back but he has a very common name so I dont even know if i am calling the right one. The way that it sits though (other than the rear spoiler) is how it came from factory. I have taken all the seats apart and the carpet out and never found a build sheet. i found a sheet metal paperwork for checking the quality from the factory and pieces of the build sheet from under the pass side seat. the dash is being pulled now so i will check there. all of my wiring fried. if you find anyone that needs some of the parts listed for sale from me let me know asap. im a poor airman in the air force and need $$$

by **Alaskan_TA** » 31 Oct 2005 22:47

I agree, this is interesting. I looked into the codes a bit, I do not have much 1970 LA information on file, but it appears that the J54 code for the hood did not appear on the LA tags until sometime on or before 129 ( Jan. 29, 1970).

Hamtramck did similar things with the J54 code as well, since it was standard on the R/Ts and A66 cars it was not always coded. It must have led to some assembly line confusion or they would not have started coding it at both plants sometime around mid model year?

Maybe this car is a result of that confusion?

One more thing to keep an eye out for from now on I guess? Research continues...... :nod:

T/Ake care,
Barry

by **Rizrtse** » 01 Nov 2005 0:14

They must have done some strange things in LA....my 70 RTSE came WITHOUT the rear finish panel...no holes, nothing. I have since added it because I like it but how strange is that? I have never seen this before.

by **dave-r** » 01 Nov 2005 8:55

I like these "odd" cars because they always give an insight into what was happening on the factory floor during production. Interesting stuff.

by **1178** » 01 Nov 2005 13:32

thanks for casting interest into my oddity of a car. If I ever get ahold of the guy that owned it originally I will keep the information posted.

by **dave-r** » 01 Nov 2005 13:41

I wonder if, seeing that the car had a flat hood, the guy sticking the R/T emblems on would then assume it was not a R/T and not stick his emblem on the trunk?

But I would have thought that even though the tag was not coded for the hood that the build sheet would be and they built the car from the sheet spec not the tag didn't they?

by **1178** » 01 Nov 2005 13:41

does anyone know if there is a way to track down a build sheet for the LA plant. I would really like to get ahold of any documentation that I can.

BTW
If anyone is interested there is a guy named Karl that has two interesting Cudas. I know this is a challenger site but share the love to these two rare E-Bodys. One is a 70 Cuda Mod Top. the only one on record and it is posted on the hamtrack site. also has a 70 Cuda 440 6pk shaker front bench seat with fold down arm rest and column shift automatic. both are being restored but interesting cars.
this is the fender tag,
you can see the car at
emeraldcoastrestorations.com

by **1178** » 01 Nov 2005 14:09

it does have R/T markings on the fenders and grill though. srange car!!!

by **1178** » 01 Nov 2005 14:12

two more

by **1178** » 01 Nov 2005 14:13

oops

by **71 pacecar** » 01 Nov 2005 20:19

I think that LA cars did not come with a sheet .most of the LA cars i have heard of never came with sheets .

by **1178** » 01 Nov 2005 21:03

well that puts a damper on my plans

by **1178** » 01 Nov 2005 21:08

maybe one of the members here know Thomas B. Smith from Huntington Beach CA and can tell him that this is his old car we are talking about it. it probably will not work but it is worth a try. :s001:

by **Alaskan_TA** » 01 Nov 2005 23:24

LA broadcast sheets are quite rare, but occasionaly someone gets lucky. I know one guy that found five matching sheets in his LA car.

Here are all the normal places to check, best of luck!

Barry

Taped to the back side / top of the glove box insert, under the front bucket seats in the springs, inside the bucket seat backs, under the rear seat bottom, in the rear seat back, under the package tray, (speaker shelf) or under the carpet.

by **71 pacecar** » 02 Nov 2005 2:14

Hi sleepychallenger is the 6 pack cuda still available his last up date was in june cool car . Do you know how much he is asking for the car. thanks steve . :thumbsup:

by **1178** » 02 Nov 2005 13:59

yes, the orange 6 pak cuda is still avail. i am not sure how much he is asking but i know that this is a rare car. he also has another cuda that is available. he has the 6 pak engine almost done for that car too. his number is 850-785-8711 real nice guy. i will see him later today if you want me to ask.

I have already looked in all of these places for the sheet. the only thing that i found were some remains of a once there sheet.

by **1178** » 02 Nov 2005 16:36

he said he is in it right now for over $50,000 and would let it roll for $50,000 right now but have to be quick about it and no screwing around.

by **71 pacecar** » 02 Nov 2005 21:21

Thanks a lot

Strange brew in LA plant