Freddie's 74 Challenger • 2 • The Dodge Challenger Message Board

by **Freddie** » 11 Dec 2003 6:05

Some newer pictures.. i haven't even seen my car in 6 months since i moved to Seattle :cry:

; but at least i bought it some more company in the Garage! :twisted:

Freddie

by **dave-r** » 11 Dec 2003 8:58

Nice to hear from you! I thought you had sold the Challenger? Glad you still have it. One of the finest modified Challengers out there in my opinion.

by **Christer** » 11 Dec 2003 10:56

Where did you get the fake snake-skin from, Freddie?

by **Freddie** » 11 Dec 2003 20:35

Nahh, Dave, in the end i couldnt' let it go..... And, that snakeskin is the real thing, i bought two whole 8 ft. skins when i worked i Nigeria for 20us$, and cut one to fit the challenger doorpanels & center console :shock:

.

Freddie

by **LITEMUP** » 14 Dec 2003 7:49

Freddie, I have a '74 and I used front and back bumper brackets from a '72 challenger to suck the bumper up against the car. Those little plastic spacers were put in place after 1972 to satisfy the U.S. Gov's 30 mph crash test rating. They put this into effect after the '72 production year so these cars weren't effected and since the '73 and 4's have the same body style everything will bolt right up; except closer. Since you are going for the same look as me I thought you might want ot know this.

by **Freddie** » 14 Dec 2003 17:05

Ive' got the older brackets on the back, but like the front they way it is. At least after removing the two HUGE rubber pushbars! :roll:

I didnt' know you could use the earlier fronts though, good info.

The whole 5-speed thing didnt' happen, since i found a 4-speed for 100$. Now that ive' got the satellite, the 64 polara and the 64 cadillac 60 special i need to refocus my sparse money towards them instead. Ill' give you a tip though; i got this super pistol grip handle and grips all in chrome from Harms, (surprisegarage.com/Chrome Metal Grips.htm). They also have some of the best made all steel scoops etc.

Dave, ive joined the sixpak club; it's for the satellite though!

by **dave-r** » 14 Dec 2003 18:52

That weiand intake will take a little tuning to get right. No good for a street car but very good for a high rpm power strip car. :twisted:

by **Freddie** » 15 Dec 2003 0:03

No, sure will be a pain in the #@$ on the street, but so will the 13" slicks and 625" lift roller cam be... :shock:

I am well pleased at the moment because they are building a dragstrip 1 mile from where my shop is, so now i dont' even have to trailer the Satellite! It's only a 1/8 mile strip, but who is complaining; i dont' know anywhere else in europe where the local counsel has allowed anyone to build a strip 10minutes from the city centre (well, not a city by european standards, but 250000 people is a lot in sweden!), and, since i got some ridiculous 5:30 gears it will suit me fine.

Now all i want is some air under those front wheels......

Freddie

"The bitterness of low quality remains long after the sweetness of low cost is forgotten"

by **Freddie** » 15 Dec 2003 0:16

Actually, i think this intake will have a pretty fat torque curve low down, the runners are quite long (they cross over inside the plenum) See attached picture. I am guessing that i will need to take the plugs out on the outboard carbs to be able to adjust for the probably crap idle it will have if i can oly adjust it on the center carb. Time will tell.

Mr. sixpack should know a lot about this; he uses this setup on his challenger!

Freddie

"The bitterness of low cost remains long after the sweetness of low cost is forgotten"

by jr » 15 Dec 2003 8:59

Obviously Freddie already knows this, but for others there's information about that Weiands intake manifold on Panics website: http://victorylibrary.com/mopar/weiand-c.htm

by **dave-r** » 15 Dec 2003 9:41

What a very good link that was!

Mr Six Pack may not have working idle circuits. Most racers just screw open the throttle enough to make the engine run because they do not care about how well it runs on the street. It is only going to be used at W.O.T.

I didn't have any idle circuits in my outboard carbs because my carbs came from a mid-seventies Jensen. So I used a metering block from a 850DP carb but still had to drill the idle fuel restriction out a little.

Also had to drill bigger holes in the throttle blades in order to get the throttle closed enough to loose the vacuum on the timing port. As you know it is only then that the idle circuits will work correctly.

You will have to do similar stuff with a cam as big as that because even though it is a roller I guess it has a fair bit of overlap?

by **Freddie** » 15 Dec 2003 13:21

The cam isn't that agressive, 275/275 @ 0.050", 108 deg. separation, so yes some overlap for sure. I wanted an even bigger cam (you know the little devil on your shoulder saying "screw logic, it MUST be faster with an even BIGGER cam!") but, having only a set of ported edelbrocks i felt this was as much as they can handle. It might be too much already.

So you had to modify your carbs a little, eh? Should be interesting for me then since i will have really low vaccum on top of everything else. I guess the simplest solution would be to set idle at 2500rpms and just live with it :roll:

Freddie

by **dave-r** » 15 Dec 2003 14:14

That is what too many people do and with a manual you might even be able to drive it?

I have a little more duration than that. Drilling holes in the throttle blades and getting the throttle closed enough for the idle circuits to work is one of those basic tuning things that I am always getting people to do.

My carbs have a cool manual conversion by "Six Packs To Go" which places accelerator pumps on the outboard carbs. This sort of set-up would be ideal for your six pack. It works very well. No throttle lag. Very crisp. Have a look at the photos of my car to see it.

by **Freddie** » 15 Dec 2003 16:49

Ok, now that ive' had a look i see what you mean. 'If i assume correct you no longer use vaccum to control your outboards, instead youve got the linkage to start opening the outboards at about 40-50% throttle, at which time the squirters will also kick in. It seems like a LOT of fuel will be added at one time. Ive' seen people with this kind of setup on hotrods etc.; bog city on a standard engine and when you dont' know how to set it up. You are running serious times on the strip, so i will of course exclude you from that bunch!

I am really surprised that there is no "kick" or anything when those babies' open up. Youve found sixpack nirvana!

This could work for me, but since i have a transbrake and a 4500 stall converter for the satellite (that 4-speed is for the challenger!) i think everything will be wide open when i launch anyway.

So are you using a 50cc pump on the center and 30cc on the outboards or 30cc on all 3?

Freddie

by **dave-r** » 15 Dec 2003 17:26

30cc on all three. You are correct that the vacuum diaphrams are no longer used (except as return springs) and that the steel rod you see on the linkage opens the secondaries. Another rod links the secondaries together.

You are also right in that when people have done this in the past it has resulted in a bad "bog" off the line. Too much fuel will cause a "bog" but usually it is caused by a lean condition because normally you cannot have pumps on the outers so when you open the throttle quickly you get a lean condition for a moment.

There is no way for the fuel to get to squirters in the outer carbs without a metering block and you cannot fit a metering block to the rear carb. Also the carb base is in the way of any pump.

This conversion I use has tiny passages and pipe work to take fuel up to the squirters and there is a little machining done to fit the pumps.

I tried this induction on a mild 440 (with 3x #28 squirters) and it was VERY impressive indeed. Scared the shit out of me the first time I snapped the throttle wide open for a fraction of a second while leaning over the engine.

On my car I use a #28 squirter in the center and two #32s on the outers. My engine makes about 520hp? and yet returns 13-14mpg (imperial) so it cannot be too bad can it? Most city driving is done on the center carb only and motorway driving the throttle does not move around a lot.

It would have been cheaper to leave the vacuum operation alone but I hate the delay with vacuum secondaries.

by **72 Challenger (Hans)** » 15 Dec 2003 18:38

The cam isn't that agressive, 275/275 @ 0.050", 108 deg. separation..... .....i have a transbrake and a 4500 stall converter

Freddie, don't you think that cam is to much for the converter you have? 275* is about a 7000rpm cam at least in a 440 or do you plan on stroking it, then it would be more streetable. I have a 240* cam with a 4000converter in a 340, this works just about right. 275* @ 050 sounds cruel :shock:

!! that's the nice part of it but performance wise my guess would be to use a higher stall converter around 5000rpm flash if you have acces to it.

But maybe it will work due the transbrake. Have no experience with these kind of things yet... :oops:

by **dave-r** » 15 Dec 2003 19:39

Whoa! I read the duration wrong didn't I? I read it as 275 degrees advertised! That is a hell of a lot of duration isn't it. Way more than my 240 degrees or whatever it is.

Hans. I would guess that with the 5.30 gears he is thinking of running up to about 7500rpm with this engine?

What speed (mph) are you expecting at the finish line Freddie? 130mph+ :?:

by **Freddie** » 16 Dec 2003 4:08

Ok, the plan was as follows; This engine for the Satellite is NOT a street engine. It's a 500ci stroker, with as much material as possible removed from the edelbrock heads (close to max wedge intake size) with 2.19/1.84 valves. The biggest cam i dared to use was the mech. roller with .625 lift from compcams with 275 duration at 0.050; i feel that any more cam with "normal" port location heads would just eat even more springs and other related valve train components without adding anything. I will set the revlimiter to 7100rpm. Also the car is set up for 1/8 mile tracks, with the 31" tires and the 5.30 this should theoretically end up with around 6800rpm at the top end and (hopefully) 6.7et's and 107mph (IF i can get 635 hp out of this thing :twisted:

)

Now with all that said, i feel this is as much power you can get out of a stock 440 block without any block filler and standard main caps without risking to have things grenade on you every week.

Freddie

by **72 Challenger (Hans)** » 17 Dec 2003 19:51

Freddie, you will get 635hp out of this engine. With stock eddy heads, a roller cam, good CR will bring you that propably without to many probs. 500" makes a big difference concerning the cam. It won't be to bad at all with these displacements. For a 500" I wanted to build they advised me a 266/272 with 630 lift roller cam for a streetcar so as a race-only car you'll be fine. For a stroked hemi I even got advised to get a 283@050 duration solid cam... BUT I would still think a lot about billet main caps! I heard Ray Barton sells them for about 370$ a set. Also Pro-Gram caps seem to be fine. About the same price range. I would even fill the block up to the freeze plugs.

by **Freddie** » 18 Dec 2003 6:22

I sure hope so. It's not going to be a competitive car anyway, so im' looking for some decent ET's without all the hassle and i want to drive to the burger king meet every wednesday! Since this car is all steel it's just too heavy.

Freddie

by **insuranceguy** » 19 Dec 2003 17:46

Freddie,

Kudos’ on making a 74 shine. Being somewhat biased on the topic, I always thought the 73-4's were sold a little short. When the Dodge engineer's had all those great bit's and pieces to make the cars go and instead put a mousy little motor in them (mine had a 150hp 318 w/California Emissions) it was a crime.

May pavement fear you and Bowtie's avoid you.

Todd