The Dodge Challenger Message Board

drewcrane wrote:i have eddie heads 10.5:1 , i can back off the timing with the msd unit ,also remember at this altitude you can run a little more advance too!obviously it will run better with the good gas but mine will run fine on pump 92 it wont ping, it just doesnt have that zip it does with the high octane gas

I bet we have a very close setup Drew. Just the carburetion a little different. My Cams a big one for s street cam. Wimpy for a track cam. 540 lift 288/298 72 degrees overlap 110 centerline, it thumps at idle. Just like me. : Ive never ran anything less than 94 Octane. It's never had a problem with that fuel. We will see more oxygenated fuels being used. Which is alcohol fortified fuel. Alcohol carries it's own oxygen molecule, hence the name 'Oxygenated fuels" Remember 'Gasahol' back in the 1980's a few geographic areas used alcohol mixed with gasoline. People started complaining to their politicians who in turn simply 'coaxed' the refineries to change the name to 'Oxygenated' fuel and that was never questioned, ,Alcohol helps reduce chamber temps which reduce Oxides of nitrogen. Which reduces greenhouse gasses and helps reduce global warming. By this summer, things are going to change rapidly in the next few months governing automotive fuel usage and their respective blends. What does all this have to do with us? I want to have a fuel additive that we can both use if need be in case we cant get the good stuff. Then we can simply add a gallon or two of the VP Red as an additive to even things out Octane wise. Sound OK?

sounds good what carb are you running?

Burp! SixPack! Actually Drew, They are Pro-Max equipped with the adjustable baseplate, 4150 style Jet-Plate that uses Holley Jets instead of the fixed metering plate. The Rear also has a Billet baseplate with angled adjusters, so you can also tune the rear carbs without removing the center Carb. The only drawback is there is no provision for vacum advance, like that matters! There is NO 'Bog' during the WOT/Part cruise transition. It just goes! I use #84's for the outboards and 68's for the primaries. It registered 12.9-13.1 AF ratio on the LM-1 Meter. Perfect or near perfect tune. At 4000 RPM's on up to 6k, better hang on!!

We may need to jet it down a little when you get here since you might be rich in mixture up here,i dont want to foul plugs,just bring jets and i have a box too!

drewcrane wrote:We may need to jet it down a little when you get here since you might be rich in mixture up here,i dont want to foul plugs,just bring jets and i have a box too!

Cool, will do Drew. I'll put Dave to work and have him tune my setup if need be. I'm better with the modern fuel infected stuff.

drewcrane wrote:nice stuff there ed, looks like we will be bringing the kitchen sink too! jus kiddin hey looks good for me ,yes we need coffee,and perhaps some tea too!and yes patrick i have an extra bag and we have a 24 hour walmart a mile from here so anything we might need is close

Thanks Drew! I'm very clean and, woudn't stink it up unless I have too many of Eddie's bean's,egg's etc... Thanks Eddie, for the air matress offer. I could probably sleep, comfortably on a rock though. It woudn't be the first time.

airfuelEddie wrote::I use #84's for the outboards and 68's for the primaries. It registered 12.9-13.1 AF ratio on the LM-1 Meter. Perfect or near perfect tune. At 4000 RPM's on up to 6k, better hang on!!

I drilled the outboards to 98 thou (can't remember what jet size that is) and use #66 jets in the center carb. I am not much above sea level either.
But this was all done with a normal O2 sensor and not the wideband I have now.

I need to re-test everything with the LM-1 meter when I get mine running and ajust the tune if needed.

I think if you do want to change jets on the trip you would get away with only changing the center carb jets.

I think if you do want to change jets on the trip you would get away with only changing the center carb jets.,i have an Lm meter perhaps you can show me hoW to use it, im pretty stupid with that kind of stuff, i always cheat and ask what jets some one elE uses, until i did get a pyrometer ,so im pretty close, my plugs are pretty clean now, but with eds car we will have to wait and see it might not be that bad.

Drew, you have an LM-1 Meter? If so, yes, Dave& I can show you how to use it. Once you use it you wont want to tune anything else without it. The wide band measures the amount of oxygen in the exhaust stream from 10:1 really rich to 18:1 really lean, very accurately. The narrow band only reads accurately at 14:7 to 1 or near perfect combustion. Anything out of it's parameter is just a wild guess. The only thing you will need is a 18mm bung in the exhaust stream near the collector tube. Sorry I missed your call last night, it was my 'Pops' birthday, I wasnt home. He turned 86 yesterday. ( I like Robert Bosch Oxygen sensors, but their fine wire platinum plugs only run well in modern fuel injected vehicles, with carbs it seems they run too cold, and gas foul in a short time, like a few days!! ,, which is why I use NGK-5's plain v-groove plugs, no fancy platinum fine wire designs) In a few days it's supposed to be 60 degrees and sunny, if so I'll 'take us' for a ride in the R/T, and show you what I mean!

Happy b day to your pops,
ye si have i t hooked up i just dont know how to read it , i hate numbers, i just mind block that side of my brain doesnt work very well as i dont practice those sort of applications, but may be you guy s can help it would be very much appreciated, its going to be 70 degrees the next 3 days maybe i will try it out

drewcrane wrote:Happy b day to your pops,
ye si have i t hooked up i just dont know how to read it , i hate numbers, i just mind block that side of my brain doesnt work very well as i dont practice those sort of applications, but may be you guy s can help it would be very much appreciated, its going to be 70 degrees the next 3 days maybe i will try it out

Thanks Drew. It's pretty easy. Lambda or Wide Band reads 1.00 as the 'ideal' mixture ratio. This translates to the Narrow band sensor reading of 14.7 stoichiometric or perfect combustion. HOWEVER, no engine is capapble of this. This would be in perfect conditions. Ideally you want around 12.5 or (.85-.90 Lambda) to ensure the engine doesnt go to lean and start melting stuff. At this reading power is made by having the mixture on the 'rich' side. Especially with carburetors. With carbs, the safe way is to tune for max power at around a 12.5 ratio, but every engine combo is a little different, therefore it should be tuned to achieve the best driveability at all driving conditions. It's all a compromise. But it aids in decreased track times and engine efficiency and longevity when it's close to 'ideal'. Mine is 'ideal' at 12.9-13.1 a little on the lean side, but it runs great, plugs last a long time with a nice Tan colour to the insulator, no overheating, headers are NOT overly red hot or anything dangerous like that. Temps are on the low-med side even in hot weather.

1.00 Lambda = 14.7 Narrow band if you want to see the chart there is one available at www.megamanual.com under fuel injectors&supply. There is a Lambda/narrow band conversion chart. If you need help with it Dave or I can help you out.

nice thanks i book marked it and i will let you how it goes, thanks alot

I have just been watching a version of Vanishing Point I recorded a few months ago and never got around to seeing.
Guess what? It is that mystery "Euro" version with the mystery lady in it!

That is the first time I have seen that. For sure it was not in the version I saw back in the early 70s.

Anyway.

Watching the film there I see that the map on the wall of the California Police office in the movie is kind of based on a real road map of the roads through Yosemite.

Kowalski enters California on 167 to the North of Mono Lake. The Police then track him along the 120 through Yosemite.

The area marked "Cisco" on the Police map seems to be to the west of an area marked on my map as being called "Chinese Camp" and it is around where the 120 becomes the 108.

ahh i was wondering if some one had that map,im waiting for my "euro version" from a buddie, we should look in to doing that route if we can im game for that i havent been through jelly stone , lets do it!

"JellyStone" Drew? Isnt it YellowStone? JellyStone is where YOGI BEAR Lives!! I want to go to JellyStone!! Hell with yellowstone!!

I hope you are not thinking of stealing a pic-er-nic basket Eddie. Just because you think you are smarter than the average bear.

i wonder is smokey the bear can kick yogi,s ass

Promise I wont steal pic's or nics' but I can't vouch for my partner in crime, BoBo.

You guys are too much

Dave, do you have a map. i'd like to check where you think Cisco was.

Jon wrote:Dave, do you have a map. i'd like to check where you think Cisco was.

Cisco was Goldfield. But, he was heading to Frisco uh, San Francisco. Maybe, I'll have to watch again. Seems like he only said Cisco, in the U.S. version. I know he said he was heading for San Francisco, to the"death Lady", in the U.K. version though. I think.

patrick wrote:Cisco was Goldfield.

No.

Goldfield was used as the location for "Cisco" where the Police put the fatal road block in place.
It was also used as the location for Super Soul's KOW radio station.

I will have to find where I put my DVD copy and take a screen shot of the police map. Or I might just take a photo of the TV screen on this new version I have on the cable TV hard drive because the map in the "deleted scene" is much clearer.

Jon wrote:Dave, do you have a map. i'd like to check where you think Cisco was.

Cisco on the "Police Map" seems to be in the center of this scan to the left of where it says Chinese Camp and about where the road is marked "120".

The Police map on the wall in the film is mounted in three parts with a frame seperating each part. It looks like the far right part is a real map of Mono lake and the road through Yosemite. But I think the center frame of their map is kinda "made up". The roads do not seem to follow reality.

However. Because they are extensions of the real roads heading west you can have a stab at the aproximate area Kowalski hits his Vanishing Point and the Challenger mysteriously turns into a Camaro.

Have a look at the map in the film and see what you think. I could do with a second opinion.

i think i remember that the map is a fictional map , but i still think we can find a route close to his , we will need to get off the interstate hiways , and travel some back roads but dave i think we can find it , i am going to download the movie from net flix so i can watch it i havent seen it in 5 to 8 years to i will refresh myself and hopefully get a screen shot of the map, ill let you know what i find out, i have another buddie (THAT I FORGOT ABOUT) that is a nut about this movie and the car i will call him for some info

I was just talking to my sister about this trip.

She has camped with a RV in Yosemite and she says if we want to camp there we had better book a spot as the place is so busy we might find it difficult to get camped anywhere.

A shot of the map from the movie would be helpful for comparison Drew.

Looks close Dave, If I remember right he was pretty far into California at the (Camaro's) final moment. It's the same town as in the beginning of the film, maybe more clues looking there.

Definitely book a campsite well in advance. 30 years ago we rolled into Yosemite late and couldn't find one. We camped off the road and got a rude awakening in the middle of the night by Mr. Ranger sir.

ok first the map in the movie wont work with todays maps most of the roads have been turned in to hiway , i have the map frozen from the movie and the one of the land marks is murphys ,other than that we will make a route from denver, if yellow stone is in the plans yes we need to know in the next few days as it is a busy place all year round
if we can we need to book this weekend as it is probably full for the next 3 or 4 months,maybe more, i will check here and
dave i still want to chat a little and maybe this weekend we can do that sat. and sun. are good days as well as friday, let me know

The copy of the film I have on a computer disc will not load. I could try it next week when I am back at work. One of the machines there would probably read it better.

As I said Jon. The begining and end were shot at the same time in Goldfield. As well as all the "Super soul" bits. The only clue to where kowalski is supposed to be is in that Police map near the end of the film.

I noticed in that version with the deleted scene that when he gets into California he is in a greener wooded area with hills. That must have been shot as you go from Nevada into california I would imagine. There are forests on the map all along that area or the border.

But when he is supposed to be deeper into california at the end of the film you can see he is in the desert around Goldfield.

If you want to go to Yosemite, here's the National Park Service's website, very helpful http://www.nps.gov/yose/index.htm.
Yosemite is basically two parks in one if driving around the area is the goal. The one everyone sees the photos of is in the valley, that's the really crowded one. Then there is the upper park. That's where the Sequoia groves,alpine meadows and alpine lakes are. There's camping,hiking etc up there too and I don't believe it's as crowded as down below.
There is a 15 minute video (Experience Your Yosemite) that is a good primer one the park.
Also the bear video is instructive if you're not aware of what they can do.

If there is a way to swing it, by all means go. To me it's the most beautiful place I've ever been to. But go during the week if you can.