[Apewalski70]

Hello !

My Challenger VIN : MVIN61262IND, I have no fender tag and no decal on the door, rad and cowl is : EO 180439, did I have solution for find the real VIN ?

Thanks.

[Eddie]

Thats not an original Chrysler V.I.N. Dash Tag the Font is wrong, the dash tag doesnt look original, the corners should be rounded not sharp corners,, the Vin Rivets are wrong too,, they should be special rossette rivets. That kinda looks like a salvaged Kentucky Title. Here in Indiana if you lose or need a new Title,, they re-issue you a different number on the Title. But Kentucky is a Hick State,,they do a lot of things differently there! Like legal marriage to a cousin, 14 year old,,ecttt

[dave-r]

Hello !

My Challenger VIN : MVIN61262IND, I have no fender tag and no decal on the door, rad and cowl is : EO 180439, did I have solution for find the real VIN ?

Thanks.

The original VIN would have started JS (if an R/T) or JH23*0E180439. The * being the engine code.

If it is the original engine it will have E0180439 stamped above the oil pan rail.

viewtopic.php?f=16&t=818

Your car was built at the Los Angeles plant "E" so the only thing we can be sure of from the infomation given is that it was never a Hemi car.

[Apewalski70]

Its a R/T with a 440 Magnum, below the ignition coil on the engine its stamped : J 440 X (and a beautiful cross), but have you a picture of the other code ? I don't find it.

Thank.

[dave-r]

Follow the link I posted in my last post above.

How do you know the 440 is original? I have seen nothing yet that shows this.

Also if it is a real 1970 440 it will have chassis re-enforcement at the corners of the frame (same as Hemi and Convertible) and may also have a skid plate on the K-frame (engine crossmember).

[dave-r]

Here is a link showing the chassis difference on the 440, 426, and Convertible cars.

viewtopic.php?f=10&t=3140

[Apewalski70]

I don't know if its an original 440, if its a real 440 its sure its a R/T, thank I will look the chassis and the engine code.

[Apewalski70]

I take a picture of the 4 speed gear, no numbers on the indentification pad, so the 4 speed is not original ?

[dave-r]

no numbers on the indentification pad, so the 4 speed is not original ?

Correct.

[Apewalski70]

Engine doesn't look like original too, I think its a 73-78 440,the identification below the ignition coil is stamped : J 440, and number on the block look like finish : 330 440 (sorry for the picture quality)

[Eddie]

www.datatags.com

[Apewalski70]

Thanks Ed I have send a message, I hope he can help me.

[Eddie]

I hope he can too Apewalski,,he will require some sort of paperwork, most likely from your Gendarme,(Police), to ascertain whether it's legitimate or not. He does excellent work! Good luck!

[dave-r]

Clearly there is not going to be any kind of paperwork that could possibly prove what this car is.

There is a strong chance this is even a real R/T car.

There are other clues that might help you identify it.

Measure the diameter of the front suspension torsion bars as accuratly as possible. Many 440 tranplants are done into cars that came with smaller engines without fitting the correct diameter bars.

Count how many leafs and half leafs there are in each rear spring.

Measure the inside diameter of the brake drums at the front if it has them. You need to unscrew the bearing to take the front drum off. If it has discs at the front forget about this one.

[Eddie]

Clearly there is not going to be any kind of paperwork that could possibly prove what this car is.

There is a strong chance this is even a real R/T car.

There are other clues that might help you identify it.

Measure the diameter of the front suspension torsion bars as accuratly as possible. Many 440 tranplants are done into cars that came with smaller engines without fitting the correct diameter bars.

Count how many leafs and half leafs there are in each rear spring.

Measure the inside diameter of the brake drums at the front if it has them. You need to unscrew the bearing to take the front drum off. If it has discs at the front forget about this one.

Dave,, shouldnt the cowl and Rad support have at least the production #s?? I read his post above but dont understand what he is describing. I went thru this myself,, does he have a buildsheet?

[Apewalski70]

Yes on the rad and cowl support its the end of the V.I.N. no I haven't buildsheet, but I seen on internet when Challenger was product in Los Angeles they don't put it in the car. The only paper I have from America its the title from Kentucky. Sorry if you don't understand me.

[Eddie]

Yes on the rad and cowl support its the end of the V.I.N. no I haven't buildsheet, but I seen on internet when Challenger was product in Los Angeles they don't put it in the car. The only paper I have from America its the title from Kentucky. Sorry if you don't understand me.

OK, the cowl numbers are part of the puzzle. Can you contact the man from Kentucky and ask him for any paperwork that denotes the original VIN? Also you could ask him for prior owners that can provide the original VIN. There is a man on this board,,Barry Washington,,I dont know him personally,,but he might provide some insight into what you can get from Chrysler that may provide more clues for your search for either paperwork or a VIN number along with what AG Backeast,(Data Tags Man) will need to make you a new VIN tag. Dont give up, persistance is key here. I would look at the uni-body structure for Torque Boxes, and as Dave said, Torsion bar diameter, Skid Plate on K-Frame ect although all the components mentioned could have been swapped out or added on except for the Torque boxes which were placed on Hemi, and 440 cars. If the torque boxes were added after the fact,,they would most likely be easy to spot. Sorry I understand you fine,,it's just me

[dave-r]

But if it turns out the car is not a R/T don't feel bad. A 1970 Challenger is a 1970 Challenger no matter what and is the damn best looking muscle car EVER!

[Apewalski70]

I buy this car 2 years ago, www.americaronline.com imported me the car in france, americaronline maked all the work (they contact the seller...) they sayed me the car was almost matching number, I ask why the vin was strange they say "don't worry, sometimes its happen" but when I see the the 8-3/4 with a 4 speed I wanted to know more about the history, I contacted Americaronline for have a history, he sayed the title was good the car was "recorded" (don't know if its the good word ??) in new york, he contact the seller My metro motors in louisville, the seller sayed its make a lot of times and nothing more...I know who is the seller I had try to contact the garage by mail but they never awser me, I never make a call I don't thing all understand.

[Alaskan_TA]

Hello !

My Challenger VIN : MVIN61262IND, I have no fender tag and no decal on the door, rad and cowl is : EO 180439, did I have solution for find the real VIN ?

Thanks.

1970 model year LA plants VINs did not go that high. Do you have any photos of the body numbers you can post? The VIN tag may have been state issued if the original was missing for some reason.

[dave-r]

1970 model year LA plants VINs did not go that high.

This is getting more "interesting" by the day.

[Apewalski70]

Hello !

My Challenger VIN : MVIN61262IND, I have no fender tag and no decal on the door, rad and cowl is : EO 180439, did I have solution for find the real VIN ?

Thanks.

1970 model year LA plants VINs did not go that high. Do you have any photos of the body numbers you can post? The VIN tag may have been state issued if the original was missing for some reason.

The number on the cowl and rad support ?

[dave-r]

Yes he means those. We need to see what they actually look like.

"Alaskan T/A" is actually Barry Washington. He is an expert on Challenger production. If anyone can solve this mystery, it is he.

[Apewalski70]

Okay thanks for help Barry, my antenna is on the rear fender like T/A (not in the exactly T/A position), but I don't think the old owner change a T/A in R/T, I'm not at my house I will show you the picture tonight.

[Apewalski70]

Me I see : E0 180439

[Alaskan_TA]

If you are willing to do so, can you use some paint stripper on the body numbers & the transmission ID pad? That may be the only way we know what is really under there for 100% certain.

Also, the door stickers were pretty thin. I have found them hidden under multiple layers of paint in the past, so if you see evidence of multiple paint jobs that includes the backs of the doors it would be worth investigating.

[Apewalski70]

Nothing on the door and 4 speed, rad and cowl aera is (at 100%) : E0 100439, below the black paint its red, I had seen a lot of colors (blue, red, yelow...) but with paint stripper I think the original color is red.

[Apewalski70]

Do you think someone can do something with just E0 100439 ?

[Alaskan_TA]

That number makes a lot more sense.

Can you get photos of the body numbers with the paint removed? I can run the dash VIN by some pals in vehicle law to see if it is state issued VIN, but they will want to know the body number also as a cross reference.

I would have to show them your title photo also, so let me know.

[fbernard]

As Barry suggested, try removing the paint on the radiator support number with a chemical paint stripper or a wire brush (not a grinding disc, it would make things worse), it looks like there's a heavy coat (or several coats) of paint there.

Take pictures of the area where the front of the leaf springs are bolted to the chassis, and the area where the front frame meets the transmission cross-member, this will tell if you have torque boxes or not.

Last, try to look at the transmission tunnel, the floors are different on a manual trans car, you will see easily if this was an original auto trans car converted to manual, as there will be a welded portion of the floor (you can probably see it even with the engine and trans installed, or under the carpet if you remove it).

For example, this is a picture of my car when I reinstalled the automatic transmission floor. If your car was converted, you'll see similar welding marks on the floor.