Identification Help!

by **PPPFFF** » 04 Jan 2004 17:25

I'm needing help making sure the car I'm looking at purchasing has the original motor and tranny.

Is it my understanding that the last 6 digits of the VIN are stamped only on the engine block and tranny housing.

Thanks, Pat

by **dave-r** » 04 Jan 2004 19:07

It is also stamped on the cowl and radiator support.

Follow this link.

http://challenger.mpoli.fi/phpbb/viewto ... =4119#4119

by **PPPFFF** » 04 Jan 2004 20:59

Thank you Dave for the valuable information. I'll let you know how I make out.

Thanks, Pat

by **dave-r** » 04 Jan 2004 22:04

Hope it works out OK for you.

by **PPPFFF** » 12 Jan 2004 19:14

Hello Dave. Just how rare is the N94 hood on RT's. Should there be a part # on the hood. Thanks

by **dave-r** » 12 Jan 2004 20:20

Is that the T/A hood? If so the part number according to Paul Herd was 3443685 but wether it is marked on the hood or not i do not know. I have only seen a real T/A once so you are better off asking someone that has one!

I was sure i had a copy of a T/A fender tag someplace to check the hood code but I can't find it at the moment.

There has been only one car found that I know of with this hood from the factory and that is said to be because of the shaker (N96) shortage.

I think it would be better if you just gave us the whole fender tag so we can see what you have found? There are a few fake tags out there so it is better to be safe than sorry.

by **JackT** » 13 Jan 2004 1:30

What gets stamped on the transmission case, engine block, radiator core support and the cowl panel of an E-body MOPAR is more than the series number from the VIN and was a pretty complete information source in its day.

In the case of a 1970 or 1971 Challenger, either a B or an E will be the first thing stamped, indicating the assembly plant. A zero or a one will be next, indicating the last digit of the model year and that will be followed by the six-digit series number. Back in the days when the factory records still existed, that stamp could be back-tracked through the records by law enforcement agencies to find the VIN of the original car it came from. Stamping the significant parts was begun to deter the theft of engines, transmissions, and front-end clips in the mid-sixties if I have the story right.

If you are looking at a stamp on a Challenger, a six-digit stamp is almost certain to be a forgery.

by **JackT** » 13 Jan 2004 1:38

N94 is the fiberglass fresh-air hood code. This would be for the T/A Challenger and the AAR Cuda hoods. If our friend has found an R/T with a fiberglass hood coded on the fender tag, he has found a pretty rare car.

by **PPPFFF** » 13 Jan 2004 15:33

It is a N94 R/t.

I need more help!

On the engine block their are some #'s strange to me?

DN RL X (towards the front of the block)

Their is also a stamping that looks like a clock

12

9 3

6

The clock is pointing with an arrow at around 7: 30.
Does this mean anything to anyone?

Thanks

by **dave-r** » 13 Jan 2004 15:56

You have to be more specific with the location of numbers (supply a photo if you can). You also need to say if the numbers are cast or stamped on and you need to say what size/year engine you are looking at.

Are these numbers stamped on a flat pad above the water pump? RB engines (440/426) have a pad here with i.d. infomation.

The clock thing you will find on many cast parts both automotive and otherwise. It is just a cast date thing.

If it has the 8 VIN numbers stamped in the right place that is all you need for now. I would buy this car wether the engine was matching or not. It is very, very rare to have that hood on a R/T. I would be paying far more attention to the build sheet and fender tag to make sure it is real than worrying about the engine and trans.

by **PPPFFF** » 13 Jan 2004 16:09

I have not seen the car yet. The owner is trying to get under the car to look for a Vin# on the engine.
What he could easily see was the casting of the DN RL X on the side of the block towards the front.

He could also see the engine casting # 2468330 -1

On the drivers side top of the block he found WW1 stamped. he's now looking for the Vin # and identification pad next to the distributor.

The build sheet and fender tag confirm N94

by **dave-r** » 13 Jan 2004 21:39

Ok. We are getting somewhere now at last!

Now I know what engine we are talking about and I can tell you what to look for and where to look.

That casting number is correct for a 1964-71 426 cubic inch RB block with a hemi head.

The other cast numbers are not important. All you want now is the VIN from the passenger side above the oil pan and the stamped digits from the flat pad to the right (fron the front) of the distributor.

The letters and numbers on that pad will tell you what the build date of the engine was. The first numbers will be something like FH426.
If this is a mid-1970 model year car (you have still not told us that either but from the hood I guess it is) then the engine build date could be very much before this. If it is don't worry about it.

Like I said. You should be less concerned about if it is the original engine and more concerned about a real and correct fender tag and if it has a build sheet or not.

by **PPPFFF** » 13 Jan 2004 23:49

Thank you for responding Dave.

In your last message you referred to RB block. What do you mean by RB block? I thought all 426 blocks (original or replacement would have that casting # I referred to above). Were looking for a vin # where you said to look and the engine I.D. behind the distributor. We shall see.

I do know the N94 is listed on the buildsheet and fender tag.

Anymore info appreciated.

Thanks

by **PPPFFF** » 14 Jan 2004 2:42

O.K. I believe I was given the correct findings on the car. I'm a little dissapointed but I will share what I know.

This is a 1970 R/T Challenger with 24,000 original miles.

I have a copy of the build sheet and codes off fender tag which match to the T.

Some interesting Facts

-N94 Fiberglass hood (Extremely Rare). Ordered Radio Delete. Ordered RT Stripe Delete
-426 Hemi Engine(Looks like 74 replacement block) Heads, intake, exhaust casting seem correct, waiting casting dates. Correct Carbs
-Automatic Transmission (727) Not sure if original, waitng to find out
-410 Rear, Ordered (A45) Front and rear spolier. Looks like a factory ordered street racer. Any opinons. Trying to value. Been in storage for 18 years. Thanks Patrick

by **JackT** » 14 Jan 2004 4:19

What are the first seven digits of the VIN already? They should be on the build sheet. If the fifth one is an R you have a real find - most likely the only hemi Challenger made with the TA hood. I question the 1974 date on the block, however, but maybe it's a crate motor block.

by **dave-r** » 14 Jan 2004 8:24

RB stands for Raised Block because of the greater deck height and longer stroke over the B block.

The 440 and 426 are RB blocks which do indeed have different casting numbers but the id pad is NOT behind the distributor as it is on the B blocks (383/400) but behind the water pump right in front of the intake valley.

The numbers stamped on there should tell you what year the block was made and maybe even what plant made it. I would not worry about it if it is not the original engine. The other options on it more than make up for this! This could be a one-of-one.

In fact it was most likely a race car of some sort. Maybe even a circuit racer. If it has a racing history this will also add value. It will also explain why the original engine is missing. Very few race cars kept their original engines.

I don't even know why you are sitting there! Get over to see it yourself! Give the owner cash, your wife, anything! As long as you are happy about the tag and build sheet being real BUY THAT CAR!

by **PPPFFF** » 14 Jan 2004 13:56

Heres more information:

Vin# JS23R0B located on the Buildsheet and fender Tag

It is a mid year car. Dated assembled off fender tag is 612

by **JackT** » 14 Jan 2004 22:59

If I had found this car as complete as it is, it would have been mine by now..... matching numbers or not.

by **dave-r** » 15 Jan 2004 10:24

In fact why don't you do a swap with me?

You can have my matching numbers 440 R/T and I will have this old thing you are looking at with the wrong engine fitted.

by **PPPFFF** » 15 Jan 2004 14:29

Dave and Jack I appreciate you both reading and responding to my posts. Let me share the facts and why this process has been slow to develop.

The car has been owned by a dear friend of mine for 20 years. maybe 500 miles put on the car since he has owned it. We are trying to be fair with each other and figure out the facts about the car. We have learned it is 1 of 1 known. That being a factory Hemi car with N94 Fiberglass Hood. No others known to exsist. Here are some other codes which make the car even rarer. We will try to arrange a deal thats good for both of us so this car can now be seen at the shows. I hope to own it soon.

E74- Hemi Engine, A32- 4.10 Dana Rear, A45- Spoiler Package Front and rear, N94- Fiberglass Hood, V68- Delete Stripes, J81- Rear Spoiler Wing Type Package, Radio Delete, FE5 Red, Black Interior

Thank you again for your posts and I'll keep you posted of our progress. Patrick

by **dave-r** » 15 Jan 2004 16:14

I personally cannot wait to see some photos of this.

I still think you should swap me for my 440. :lol:

by **JackT** » 15 Jan 2004 21:49

No, you don't want Dave's old wreck..... take my fully restored numbers-matching R/T factory six-pack Challenger instead. I'll even throw in the trophies it has won.

by **dave-r** » 15 Jan 2004 22:34

Yeah but mine is faster and goes around corners at speed too!

by **PPPFFF** » 16 Jan 2004 1:21

I appreciate both of your offers!!! However, I hope to enjoy the car for a while. I look forward to sharing the cars history once I have it all. I will also be sure to post pictures. The two of you are very knowledgable about these cars. Thanks for your patience with my posts. Patrick

by **Alaskan_TA** » 16 Jan 2004 5:26

Like has been mentioned, the N94 T/A hood on a Challenger R/T is
extremely rare.

I know of three non-T/As coded for the T/A hood, one is a 340 car, one is a 383 and the other is a Hemi. I also know of one 1971 340 Challenger coded for the N94 hood.

This car sounds a little different that the Hemi N94 car I know of, so it may be the second one known so far.

Barry Washington

by **PPPFFF** » 16 Jan 2004 14:11

I know galen has only one Hemi (N94)on record. A Black one which they believe was completely dismantled. Is this the one you are referring to Barry. :lol:

by **Alaskan_TA** » 17 Jan 2004 5:03

Yes it is, former race car, supposedly rusted and parted years ago.

Barry

by **PPPFFF** » 27 Feb 2004 18:37

My friend and I have a tentative agreement on the purchase of the car. I'm going in 2 weeks to see him and the car. I last saw the car 20 years ago. I'm looking forward to seeing it again and taking pictures to post soon. Patrick

by **Alaskan_TA** » 28 Feb 2004 5:49

Cool! Best of luck Patrick!

I hope you can bring it home.

T/Ake care,
Barry

by **dave-r** » 28 Feb 2004 11:28

Oh yes! Photos PLEASE!

Good luck!

Number stamps

Hood code

N94 hood.