Rallye Clock Restoration

by **Brant** » 19 Dec 2006 19:20

Now that winter is here and I have time for Christmas, I can tackle my RALLEY CLOCK. I found some killer info on these bad boys. I do not want to convert to quartz as I want that windup sound to exist – I think that is cool!

Anyways, I have the info and the know how but I'm stuck – how do I get into the clock?? I have it out, in my hands, and it looks like I have to drill out rivets or grind them off? This seems unusual, as all other contained gauges are accessable. perhaps I can take some pictures tonight. I'm desperate – Has anyone elso done this themselves? I will not send it out.

thanks guys and happy holidays to all of you.

by **fbernard** » 20 Dec 2006 10:55

Brant wrote: I'm desperate – Has anyone elso done this themselves? I will not send it out.

thanks guys and happy holidays to all of you.

I cleaned mine a couple years ago. I simply used WD-40 and a tiny pair of tweezers to remove the lint. It works now. It just needs more current that the ignition, probably. So I keep it disconnected.

I also tinned the solenoid contacts, which were a bit oxydized. No big deal (just use a small soldering iron).

by **dave-r** » 20 Dec 2006 11:08

I tinned the contacts on mine a few times but it only ran for a few weeks each time so I gave up and converted it.

I can't remember how I got into the clock. But I don't remember it being very hard?

by **Eddie** » 20 Dec 2006 17:32

Sent my Ralley Gauges to www.autoinstruments.com and had the conversion done,(quartz), and it works perfect! They will also restore to O.E.M. specs if you get in over your head or need parts.

by **fbernard** » 21 Dec 2006 8:48

Last year I saw a post (probably on moparts) about a firm which can covnert ALT gauges to Voltmeters, and make it look original. Does anybody remember the name of this firm, or have a link? I can't find them anymore...

by **Eddie** » 21 Dec 2006 16:54

Hey Fabian, hows it going? I recall MoPar Action had an article about the quartz conversion and a couple other electrical "upgrades" maybe their tech archives has the company name. BTW wouldnt a voltmeter measure only potential and not current amount or how much the battery "sees" but not how much is actually needed for re-charging? Nonetheless, I am pretty sure you have to drill out those rivets to access the inner workings of the ralley clock, tach combo. No other way I know of.

by **cv70chall** » 21 Dec 2006 17:09

I understand from talking with the good folks at AutoInstruments that the non-quartz restoration basically lasts about a year or so, and that the Quartz resto lasts up to 10 years.
Anyone else dealt with this on both sides?
I don't have the Rallye clock, only the J21 standard clock.

:?:

by **Eddie** » 21 Dec 2006 18:02

cv70chall wrote:I understand from talking with the good folks at AutoInstruments that the non-quartz restoration basically lasts about a year or so, and that the Quartz resto lasts up to 10 years.
Anyone else dealt with this on both sides?
I don't have the Rallye clock, only the J21 standard clock.

I have only dealt with one side. The modern reliable way! The solid state conversion was the only option for me. I didnt want to go back inside the dash it just looks to damn good! Also my dash pad is original unrestored and I want to preserve that. But the gentleman wants to know how to "access" the components that make the thing work and does not want to convert anything. He wants to restore it. I think autoinstruments could answer his question more accurately.

by **christer** » 21 Dec 2006 22:49

I have found these sources:

Re-doing Instrument Clusters - Mopar Muscle, Jan 1999 - pgs 80-83
Mopar Tachometers (tech) - Mopar Tech #4 `96 - pgs pgs 40-41
Restoring Instrument Gauge Faces - Mopar Muscle, Feb/Mar `96 - pgs 52-58

(From http://www.sweptline.com/lit/mprmags_index.html )

and

http://rt-eng.com/mediawiki/index.php/Main_Page

http://www.allpar.com/history/mopar/electrical2.html

Maybe you will find something useful there?

by **Eddie** » 21 Dec 2006 23:08

Man, thanks christer I could use that myself!! Also BRANT can you include any "pics" of the clock/tach? We can surely "walk" you yhrough this!

by **fbernard** » 22 Dec 2006 8:44

airfuelEddie wrote:Hey Fabian, hows it going? I recall MoPar Action had an article about the quartz conversion and a couple other electrical "upgrades" maybe their tech archives has the company name. BTW wouldnt a voltmeter measure only potential and not current amount or how much the battery "sees" but not how much is actually needed for re-charging?

With the right harness mods, the alternator current is no longer going through the dash gauge on my cars. So the ammeter gives only false information now (always on the 'discharge' side)
Besides, if you know how your charging system works, a voltmeter gives more than enough information about the electrical system status.

airfuelEddie wrote: Nonetheless, I am pretty sure you have to drill out those rivets to access the inner workings of the ralley clock, tach combo. No other way I know of.

Like Dave said, I don't recall exactly how I took it apart, but it was easy. If I remember correctly, it was just a matter of bending tabs.

Looking here :
http://rt-eng.com/mediawiki/images/3/3d ... nstall.pdf

I simply did not have to separate the face from the clock mechanism.

Thus I did not drill out the rivets.

by **christer** » 22 Dec 2006 9:33

airfuelEddie wrote:Also BRANT can you include any "pics" of the clock/tach? We can surely "walk" you yhrough this!

I was about to suggest the same thing myself.

by **Jon** » 22 Dec 2006 14:47

Last year I saw a post (probably on moparts) about a firm which can covnert ALT gauges to Voltmeters, and make it look original. Does anybody remember the name of this firm, or have a link? I can't find them anymore...

I have been seriously researching performing the alt. meter bypass on the rallye cluster. This gauge can overheat and catch fire along with the rest of the car. That's scary. The conversion you spoke of Fbernard sounds like the solution I am looking for. Hope you can find that supplier. Have you already by passed the amp. meter in another way?

As for Rt-eng. I have had their tach replacement boards for about a year with no problems. After installing the FBO electronic conversion the tach now reads incorrectly. Don at FBO gave me little help in solving the problem. I e-mailed Greg at Rt-eng and he was all over it. Great support, can't say enough good things about them. :thumbsup:

by **fbernard** » 23 Dec 2006 9:15

Jon wrote:Have you already by passed the amp. meter in another way?

The easy way is simply to connect the alternator to the battery (or to the starter relay, since my battery is in the trunk) with some heavy gauge wire (I used Painless Performance kit #30709 and #40110). I then removed the old lead that went from the alternator main terminal to the bulkhead. This winter, I'll reroute and lengthen (or replace) that wire to the trunk, so that the alternator wire is right at the battery post (to make sure engine stops if I open the master switch).

Jon wrote: As for Rt-eng. I have had their tach replacement boards for about a year with no problems. After installing the FBO electronic conversion the tach now reads incorrectly. Don at FBO gave me little help in solving the problem. I e-mailed Greg at Rt-eng and he was all over it. Great support, can't say enough good things about them.

I emailed RT-Engineering yesterday, I'll probably rebuild my tach and clock with their stuff.

by **Jon** » 23 Dec 2006 18:38

Fbernard, I don't understand the connection between the battery and the alternator. How is the regulator involved in this circuit? Also, the fuseable link main wire to the bulkhead remains to supply power to the rest of the car?

Thanks

by **fbernard** » 23 Dec 2006 21:44

Jon wrote:Fbernard, I don't understand the connection between the battery and the alternator. How is the regulator involved in this circuit? Also, the fuseable link main wire to the bulkhead remains to supply power to the rest of the car?

Thanks

Jon, The regulator is not in series with the alt and battery. It just switches the alt on or off using the field wire(s) (the smaller wires going to the alt).
Wiring the alt to the battery is independant from the regulator.

Check out the information on this page :
http://www.mymopar.com/charging.htm

and you'll see what I mean.
The amp gauge is simply sitting between the alt and battery.

by **fbernard** » 24 Dec 2006 10:25

I found the answer to my question on Moparts.
Redline Gauge Works ( http://www.redlinegaugeworks.com/ ) does the amp to volt-meter conversion.

by **Jon** » 24 Dec 2006 14:58

Thanks for all of the information. Redline gauges is located near Bakersfield California I believe. I commute there twice a week. Will stop by their shop next trip over.

Found this artical regarding another by pass method. It looks a little rough drilling through the bulk head and such.

http://www.madelectrical.com/electrical ... uges.shtml

by **spitfire9137** » 25 Dec 2006 1:24

That was not a bypass method. That was the method to beef it up if you wanted to keep the AMP gauge. The part that was drilled through was the bulkhead connector for the wiring harness, this was done because those terminal in there for the AMP gauge tend to get hot and melt the plastic around them. So they just drilled a hole in the connecter and ran a solid peice of wire in there.

by **fbernard** » 25 Dec 2006 10:36

And by the way, the amp gauge should not be kept (even with beefier wires and drilled out bulkhead connectors) if a stronger than stock alternator is used.

The shunt resistance behind the gauge is calculated for a 60 amp max current.

So if you're installing a 100 amp (or more) alternator (if you have electric fuel and water pumps, electric fans, powerful headlights, etc.), you should reroute the charging wire straight from the alt to the battery.

by **christer** » 25 Dec 2006 11:04

Jon wrote:Found this artical regarding another by pass method. It looks a little rough drilling through the bulk head and such.

http://www.madelectrical.com/electrical ... uges.shtml

A very well written article. Thanks! An electrician I knew ( He is now deceased) suggested about the same thing. His idea was to drill an extra hole in the fire-wall. I guess it is a matter of taste which one of the mods you choose.

by **Jon** » 25 Dec 2006 18:23

That was not a bypass method. That was the method to beef it up if you wanted to keep the AMP gauge. The part that was drilled through was the bulkhead connector for the wiring harness, this was done because those terminal in there for the AMP gauge tend to get hot and melt the plastic around them. So they just drilled a hole in the connecter and ran a solid peice of wire in there.

I will admit to my lack of knowledge in the electrical dept. but I thought the Amp. gauge was disconnected and the wires soldered together at that location. Did I miss something again. :s022:

Yes the bulk head pin connection in this circuit was also by-passed . We all agree this is a "weak link" but, don't we need this source to power the rest of the vehicle?

Thanks

by **Jon** » 25 Dec 2006 19:09

So if you're installing a 100 amp (or more) alternator (if you have electric fuel and water pumps, electric fans, powerful headlights, etc.), you should reroute the charging wire straight from the alt to the battery.

Fbernard, Would the starter relay be a good point to connect the alt. wire to the battery as mentioned in the article?

I am curious what you did with the red power wire from the same relay lug? It must remain in tact at least to the factory welded wire splice in order to feed the other circuits?

Also, is the 10g. black wire under the dash (originally it was the alt. wire) simply abandoned from the bulk head to the amp. gauge?

Sorry for all the questions but would rather not start cutting away wires without knowing the ramifications. The article make sense but it refers to a Dodge truck not a Challenger.

Thanks again

by **spitfire9137** » 26 Dec 2006 0:27

Jon wrote:That was not a bypass method. That was the method to beef it up if you wanted to keep the AMP gauge. The part that was drilled through was the bulkhead connector for the wiring harness, this was done because those terminal in there for the AMP gauge tend to get hot and melt the plastic around them. So they just drilled a hole in the connecter and ran a solid peice of wire in there.

I will admit to my lack of knowledge in the electrical dept. but I thought the Amp. gauge was disconnected and the wires soldered together at that location. Did I miss something again.

Yes the bulk head pin connection in this circuit was also by-passed . We all agree this is a "weak link" but, don't we need this source to power the rest of the vehicle?

Thanks

Opps, you're right I just skimmed the article real quick. Sorry about that. They did bypass, but with the method they used you could still keep the amp gauge hooked up. If you want to bypass the amp gauge, run a wire from the alternaotr like I did and connect the 2 wires together at the amp gauge with a proper connection and you should be good.

On my car, I can't remember if I unhooked the amp gauge or not, I think i did, but I ran a wire from the alternator, installed a fusible link on it and just hooked it right to the lug on the start relay.

by **dave-r** » 26 Dec 2006 12:05

My bulkhead connector was still stock last time I used the car and the amp gauge hooked up as normal.

However I also ran a heavy low resistance audio lead with a fuse directly from the alternator to the fender terminal block that the battery also attaches to (1970 only??) via the starter motor. I also run the powerful electric radiator fan directly from the alternator.

So the current going through the bulkhead terminal is much reduced. Probably by more than half due to the very low resistance wire I used.

The next stage would have been to connect the headlights to the battery/alternator via relays.

by **Brant** » 28 Dec 2006 0:27

I'm diving in. RT specialties diagrams is incredibly useful. Thanks everyone for the help. Once I have it open i'm sure I can put all th info together and resove the issue. Amazing response – I thank you greatly. I'll post my results. cheers.

by **Eddie** » 28 Dec 2006 2:49

Let us know of your results if you could please. and good luck!

by **Brant** » 31 Jan 2007 21:28

OK. Here are my results. I purchased some expensive clock cleaner and high grade clock oil. I cleaned everything by injecting the mechenism with the cleaner using an insulin needle. Did this for an hour or so. lubed everything up and ta-da, she works agian.

I then thought I'd test it and hook it up before putting it back in. I hooked it up, it ticked away, the points came together and kicked apart, it ticked away again and on the second touch of the points – she stuck shut and fried the coil.

I packaged it up and sent it out for a conversion. Sure I could have replaced the coil, but for what??? It would just happen again. I tried and I give up.

Please don't look to me for any inspiration, I'm very dissapointed with myself.

by **christer** » 31 Jan 2007 21:45

Brant wrote:OK. Here are my results. I purchased some expensive clock cleaner and high grade clock oil. I cleaned everything by injecting the mechenism with the cleaner using an insulin needle. Did this for an hour or so. lubed everything up and ta-da, she works agian.

I then thought I'd test it and hook it up before putting it back in. I hooked it up, it ticked away, the points came together and kicked apart, it ticked away again and on the second touch of the points – she stuck shut and fried the coil.

I packaged it up and sent it out for a conversion. Sure I could have replaced the coil, but for what??? It would just happen again. I tried and I give up.

Please don't look to me for any inspiration, I'm very dissapointed with myself.

Better luck the next time.... :lol:

Thanks for the feedback.

by **472 R/T SE** » 01 Feb 2007 0:05

Bummer. I just bought a gauge repair manual off ebay.
I'm hoping to tear into my dozen or so clusters I have and was anxious to see how you fared. RT Specialties huh, I'll have to contact Tom and see if I can get one too. Thanks.

Re: Rallye Clock Restoration

Re: Clock Restoration

Re: Clock Restoration