The Dodge Challenger Message Board

My car has power steering, it appears totally factory but my fender tag does not show that the car came with it. Is it possible that the car came with P/steering but it didnt appear on the fender tag?

My A66 came with manual steering. I replaced it with power from a donar car. Possibly that is what the previous owner of yours did ??

I guess it is possible the factory could have miss stamped your tag though.

Jon,
I sent you a private message, did you get it? I was wondering what the car was like with manual steering? Since I bought a refurbished power steering gear and pump It is going to stay with power. But thinking about how heavy the car is I would think manual steering would be pretty heavy.

Power steering is only coded on the broadcast sheet in most cases.


An exception (as an example) would be a 1970 car with the A04 Package. A04 would appear on the fender tag, and it included power steering, but it would not be coded on the tag seperately as an "option".

Thanks alaskan T/A for that info. My Red Book indicates S77 as the code for power steering. This would not come up on a fender tag?

Got your message on the painting tips, thanks. Will archive them for the day the big commitment happens. Still buffing through the last coats of lacquer and seeing primer so it won't be too long.

As for the choice in steering, I went to power because of two things. First, with wide bias ply tires it was alot of work to turn at slow speeds such as parallel parking.

Second, was the amount of turns required lock to lock. Once I lost control as I couldn't keep up with the wheel in a power slide. A rookie mistake for sure but I'd swear there was a breeze coming off the wheel (like a fan) as it spun back and forth.

The feel was nice at speed though so that is a consideration. I think Dave likes manual steering. Maybe he will pop in with his opinion.

If you do stay with power and have the money, I would recommend getting a Firm Feel steering box. I replaced the over-powered "original" last July and it has a much better feel. Hence the name. I think there is a thread here about it.

Well I have quick ratio manual steering. And 9.5 inch wide front tyres.

You think yours was heavy Jon?

But at any speed over walking pace it is not an issue.

I like the tight feeling of control the manual steering gives me. There is zero feedback through the steering wheel on mopar power steering. So your steering input is reactive (from your eyes looking at the road) rather than instinctive from the feel.

American roads do not twist and turn as tightly as narrow British roads.
I don't think having power steering would bother me if driving in America. I did find this the case in Canada. But driving over here I welcome the feedback manual steering gives me.

Yes i bought a Firm Feel box from them- but sorry havn't fitted it yet so can't comment. It is a stage 2 (they make 3 stages of firmness). Around the same time i bid and won a recon box on ebay- the seller claimed it was a "quick ratio" factory power steering box. Has anyone heard of such a thing. He reckons it was on the T/A cars and AARs that had power steer. When it arrived i phoned Firm Feel and described it. They had never heard of one. He said by the part number and casting numbers it was a stock box. So looks like i wuz duped.

American roads do not twist and turn as tightly as narrow British roads,hey dave or anyone else in europe ,have you ever driven your chally on the cobblestone roads ? just wondering how your car drives with all the bumps,i would love to do that just to say i did it,!

Goldenblack440 wrote:the seller claimed it was a "quick ratio" factory power steering box.

I used to know this but an struggling to remember. I think all power steering boxes are 16:1 "quick ratio"? But the AAR and T/A had a longer pitman arm to make it faster still.

Manual steering was always 24:1 to reduce steering effort but you could get a 16:1 on the T/A.

These days it is possible to get a 20:1 manual box (which I have) that is a half way compromise between steering effort and fast steering. I also just fitted a smaller diameter steering wheel which does not reduce the number of turns lock to lock but allows your hands to turn the wheel faster.

drewcrane wrote:American roads do not twist and turn as tightly as narrow British roads,hey dave or anyone else in europe ,have you ever driven your chally on the cobblestone roads ? just wondering how your car drives with all the bumps,i would love to do that just to say i did it,!

There are not many cobbled streets left. Just one or two in the older areas around old Victorian warehouses. Also one of the roads on the university campus where i work. I have to drive along this old road to get to the car park. The buildings on one side of this road were once the Newcastle brewery headquarters from back in the day when the carts were horse drawn. (cobbled roads were for the horses to get a good grip with their hooves). They are pulling the building down at the moment but are going to keep the old victorian brewery head office. Not sure what the plans for the road surface are. My guess is that they will keep it.

Cobbles are actually fine to drive on. Slight vibration. But lots of tyre noise. The Grand Cherokee doesn't really notice them.

I have studied hundreds of E Body fender tags and have never seen the S77 code on any of them. I have seen A04 on many of them, but I have also seen many cars with power steering, am radio, etc, that do not have the A04 code. There is no pattern to it.

dave-r wrote:

Goldenblack440 wrote:the seller claimed it was a "quick ratio" factory power steering box.

I used to know this but an struggling to remember. I think all power steering boxes are 16:1 "quick ratio"? But the AAR and T/A had a longer pitman arm to make it faster still.

Manual steering was always 24:1 to reduce steering effort but you could get a 16:1 on the T/A.

These days it is possible to get a 20:1 manual box (which I have) that is a half way compromise between steering effort and fast steering. I also just fitted a smaller diameter steering wheel which does not reduce the number of turns lock to lock but allows your hands to turn the wheel faster.

sorry for the late reply, just noticed it! That's interesting about the AAR/TA pitman arm. I think the seller mentioned something in the item description about it being TA spec. But as far as the outside and casting numbers go its a stock box. Yes the power boxes were 15.7:1 (16:1) which was 3.5 turns lock to lock and all our Aussie Valiant's manual boxes were 20:1 which was about 4.7 turns lock to lock, as far as i know (except some RT Chargers had the 16:1 manual box). All our manual boxes were fairly heavy with the V8, depending on tyre type and width and front end setup. But once on the go, were quite satisfactory. If you put a smaller diameter steering wheel with a 20:1 box you will see a noticeable difference in firmness, esp at low speeds, but will make for less elbow work on the tighter bends. Unless you are totally against power steering, you might like to try one of Firm Feel's boxes, or even a police power box, as these had more firmness apparently, equivalent to the Firm Feel's Stage 1. I bought the Stage 2 -but still not in yet! Also too, they specify to use a 73 Pitman arm with boxes going into a 70 or 71 model Ebody. So Chrysler must have revised the pitman arm in 73.

I think the output shaft diameter increased in 1973 on the B, E and A-body. The same box as used on the '65-78 C-Body.

The T/A power steering boxes have a large TA cast right into them.

They were used on;

AARs with power steering.

Some T/As with power steering.

All 1971 340 equipped Challengers & Cudas after a certain point in time, about mid model year.

So what is the difference between these "T/A" power steering boxes and the regular kind?

See TSB No. D71-19-4 (Chapter 19) at this link;

http://www.hamtramck-historical.com/197 ... ndex.shtml

Mmmm. Still not sure what the actual physical differences are in practice.

Except that they call it essentially a C-body box. Which I think had a bigger diameter output shaft and longer pitman arm?? I think?

I had a look at what Year One sells which is often a pointer to what you find on these cars.

They sell two basic power steering boxes that they claim cover most models.

Type 1
1960-1964 full size cars
1961-1972 A-Body
1965-1972 B-Body
1970-1972 E-Body

Type 2
1965-1978 C-Body (but not '65-'67 Imperial)
1973-1976 A-Body
1973-1979 B-body
1973-1974 E-Body

I think the type 2 has a larger diameter output shaft????

ya know dave i have a t/a box i will measure the out put shaft today and get back to you, maybe someone has a stock box to compare it to

Yes the 73 up is the larger shaft. That is the one I recently bought from FFI. ( just because the pitman arm was $100 less. ) Kept my old 70 box for originality sake though. That and they are a little harder to come by these days.