The Dodge Challenger Message Board

www.calvertracing.com
I read goodies from these bars. Anybody heard anything about it?

At first I had some trouble finding a pic of it. Finally I found it. It is this you mean, right?
http://www.calvertracing.com/info/info.htm

Some people swear by them.

Some people swear AT them because they have trouble fitting them or they don't work as they should.

On a car like yours they would probably be of benifit. They work well with mono-leaf springs I am told.

Does anyone know how much total weight would be shed over the O.E.M. setup and are they usefull for just drag racing or "straight line" performance?

christer wrote:At first I had some trouble finding a pic of it. Finally I found it. It is this you mean, right?
http://www.calvertracing.com/info/info.htm

Yes it's what I mean.
Some people tell me goodies of these bars, good for the track and easy to drive on the street.

airfuelEddie wrote:Does anyone know how much total weight would be shed over the O.E.M. setup and are they usefull for just drag racing or "straight line" performance?

I do not undertand what are you asking about.

I think I do. The mono springs are about the same weight as superstock springs.

Which makes sense if you think about it. Yet I have heard several retailers claim they are lighter because they only have one or a split leaf.

I think they are strangers to Physics.

dave-r wrote:I think I do. The mono springs are about the same weight as superstock springs.

Which makes sense if you think about it. Yet I have heard several retailers claim they are lighter because they only have one or a split leaf.

I think they are strangers to Physics.

Then I wont go there. PlumCrazy, I was wondering how the Cal Tracs would work on the "twisties". You know, RoadRacing, the ultimate test of man and machine, Huc de LeMans!

They do save some weight compared to the stock springs but I cannot tell you how much. My guess would be around 20lbs of weightsavings.

And as for cornering with them, if you ask me they will not have a bad influence on it comared to stock ones. At least not that I can feel when driving our Duster, which has them too.

I plan on getting them for my challenger sometime too but as long as the old ones do their job I think it's fine. The stock ones seem to work with the caltrac bars, but the monos will work better. But so far I do have enough tracion on the strip with the stock leafs in combo with the caltrac bars.

72 Challenger (Hans) wrote:They do save some weight compared to the stock springs but I cannot tell you how much. My guess would be around 20lbs of weightsavings.

If you add caltracs to stock springs you are adding weight. Caltracs are heavier than a pinion snubber.

If you use mono leaf springs they will be about the same weight as stock (or even super stock) springs (i.e. heavy). I have heard this is true from several people using them including a close freind.

The steel is the same. A lighter spring cannot have the same strength than as a heavier one. Spring rates are determined by spring length and steel thickness.

Leaf springs cannot be directly compared to the tickness of mono leafs though. Because leafs use different lengths to place the max strength at a specific point rather than along the whole length.
Chrysler springs in particular are not even each side of the axle and the front half of the spring is much shorter than the rear half. A fact that made chrysler leaf springs the best on the market in their day.

This is why to try and keep up the mono leaf people have split their springs in two halfs to try and make the front section stiffer than the rear. The same as Chrysler have done for 60 years.

On average I would have guessed the two types of spring would weigh the same or close to it. My friends confirm they feel the same weight. Although non of them have thought to actually weigh them.

I would be interested to find out for sure if someone wants to try.

If they did turn out to be lighter I might even buy a pair myself.

airfuelEddie wrote:PlumCrazy, I was wondering how the Cal Tracs would work on the "twisties". You know, RoadRacing, the ultimate test of man and machine, Huc de LeMans!

They don't. Hopefully they don't make it worse either. The only purpose of the Caltracs is to prevent leaf spring bind, oscillation, and resonance. This is all about launch and straightline acceleration. Think of the Caltracs as a mini-four-link setup.

What's needed for cornering on our cars at the rear is a sway bar, firm shocks and good tires...A friend of mine has an OEM sway bar, Koni shocks and great Continental tires on a 1973 340 'cuda. This car has very nice handling, and we can't make it slide easily.

fbernard wrote:

airfuelEddie wrote:PlumCrazy, I was wondering how the Cal Tracs would work on the "twisties". You know, RoadRacing, the ultimate test of man and machine, Huc de LeMans!

They don't. Hopefully they don't make it worse either. The only purpose of the Caltracs is to prevent leaf spring bind, oscillation, and resonance. This is all about launch and straightline acceleration. Think of the Caltracs as a mini-four-link setup.

What's needed for cornering on our cars at the rear is a sway bar, firm shocks and good tires...A friend of mine has an OEM sway bar, Koni shocks and great Continental tires on a 1973 340 'cuda. This car has very nice handling, and we can't make it slide easily.

That was exactly what I was looking for! Thank you so much Fabian, so many times the magazines get caught up in their promotion of the "product or part" they are promoting, that they overlook the true intended purpose of the part and claim a universal application. I must look into those Konis! I am using Edelbrock shocks currently and they are decent. I need more tire, bad.

airfuelEddie wrote:That was exactly what I was looking for! Thank you so much Fabian, so many times the magazines get caught up in their promotion of the "product or part" they are promoting, that they overlook the true intended purpose of the part and claim a universal application. I must look into those Konis! I am using Edelbrock shocks currently and they are decent. I need more tire, bad.

It all depends on your wheel size. We always have trouble finding good 15" street tires in Europe (may or may not be better in the US, I see more choice on tirerack but I don't have experience with those tires)

I'll be switching to 18 or 17" wheels very soon (have to, the new front discs are 13"), and the tire selection will be much better.
For my friend's cuda, we sticked to 15" wheels (white laquered Minilites, very 'TransAm' looking), and the only good tires we found seemed a little on the thin side : only 225-70-15 (I'm not sure about the 70 series but the tires are definitely 225 wide). In real life, they're great.

Konis are good, but in my opinion, QA1 are better (that's what I have now on the Challenger). I'd say the damping capabilities and rates are probably just as good as the Konis, but tha QA1s are externally adjustable (just turn a button on the shock body). To adjust the Konis, you must take them off the axle (or just the lower eyelet) and turn the shock body.
The (single adjustable) QA1s for an E-body are TC-1538P front and TC-1539P rear. They're 140 dollars apiece. There's a double adjustable version (prefix DTC instead of TC) which, in my opinion, is mostly useful for drag racing. And much more expensive.

It's really nice to have some sort of comfort on the road and be able to harden the shocks when you arrive at a road course.

The only drawback (in my opinion) of the QA1s is that the usable setting range is short. I'm using the shocks at 4 clicks from the lowest setting (out of 12), and that's very firm. I'd say the 12th click ought to be called the 'Dukes Of Hazzard' setting.


Now, all I need is to find a good sway-bar setup.

Thanks a lot Fabian, Some really great info there. It's difficult to find good info on "handling" there is an abundance for drag Racing however. My wheels are "stock" Ralley 15" and I have both sway bars attached. The rear bar is from Firm Feel and is the over the axle design as used on Trans Am Challengers not the B-body style. The car handles very well and I am at the limit with the tire that I currently use. I guess it's time for some light weight wheels and low profile tires combined with those QA1's dampers.Oh and the only tire I have ever run is B.F. Goodrich. Even on my trucks. Is their a better tire? Thanks again Fabian

airfuelEddie wrote:Oh and the only tire I have ever run is B.F. Goodrich. Even on my trucks. Is their a better tire? Thanks again Fabian

There certainly is. Although some BFG are pretty good. I usually love Yokohama's (they have some race-oriented, DOT-approved tire lines which are made of a very soft compound, great for any kind of road racing, somewhat funny on wet pavement though), I've heard some good things about Nitto and Kumho (both have some good references in the high end, but I have no personal experience with those, and only the Kumhos can be found here in France). Continental makes great tires for sport cars (pretty pricey though), and Michelin does, too. In fact, if I can find the same tires for the Challenger that I currently have on my RS Clio (Michelin Pilot Exalto II), I'll look into these too. There are also some good sport tires from Dunlop and Falken, among others. The main way to find really good tires is to look at what is mounted OEM on current sport cars and SUVs (I look at tires for Porsche Cayenne and the like). These are heavy, fast cars with good handling.

Any tire will probably have a very short lifespan for me anyway, since I don't use my car much in winter, and they'll probably be hard as wood after a year. So getting the softest compound available (this side of a slick tire) is not really a problem.

Thanks for the tire tips. We fortunately have an abundance of tire shops around here. I think my next tire will be somewhat softer, much softer. I wont use the car only in the hottest of weather which is from May until Sept. then the Challenger goes up. BTW, Fabian are the billet wheels offered by Wheel Vintiques in the Rallye or Magnum 500 style Heavy? If so are they a lot heavier than the stock Ralleys or Police stamped steel wheels? (I have both sets available). I want to paint the "steelies" body color then mount some really good tires on them combined with those QA1's I wont however use the billet wheels if they are heavier. I dont want to go backwards. I have "shaved" off the front end about 80 Lbs. with aluminum heads, water pump, intake. This has to help. I am going to the Grand Prix at Indianapolis this June 17 and would love to take my car for the Fathers Day Lap, (only a few cars are pre-selected), and they let you make a few laps! I would be the first to be kicked out I'm sure!! Just a pipe dream for now, Thanks again, Eddie

airfuelEddie wrote:BTW, Fabian are the billet wheels offered by Wheel Vintiques in the Rallye or Magnum 500 style Heavy? If so are they a lot heavier than the stock Ralleys or Police stamped steel wheels? (I have both sets available). I want to paint the "steelies" body color then mount some really good tires on them combined with those QA1's I wont however use the billet wheels if they are heavier. I dont want to go backwards. I have "shaved" off the front end about 80 Lbs. with aluminum heads, water pump, intake. This has to help. I am going to the Grand Prix at Indianapolis this June 17 and would love to take my car for the Fathers Day Lap, (only a few cars are pre-selected), and they let you make a few laps! I would be the first to be kicked out I'm sure!! Just a pipe dream for now, Thanks again, Eddie

I don't know the weight of those wheels, although I've seen them last year (in Columbus probably). All I know is I wouldn't use them, and here's why :
- The billet Rallye wheels in large sizes (17" I've seen, they exist in 16 and 18 too) are simply ugly. I think it has more to do with the manufacturing process than the size increase. Copying a stamped design with a CNC manufacturing method can look good (the Magnum looks good enough), but for the Rallye wheel, it just looks bad. And the holes are not big enough for proper brake ventilation IMO.
- The Magnum 500 wheels, although they look good, have tiny holes. No proper brake ventilation.

Since my primary concern for finding new wheels are :
-fitment over 13" discs and 6-piston calipers
- brake ventilation (actually, forced brake ventilation with a front spoiler)
- reduced weight

I'll probably go with cast alloy wheels, and most probably American Racing since I can barely find anything else that looks good on a Mopar. (I also like the current trend in large satin black spokes ala Chip Foose, although these seem to be everywhere right now - everywhere except within my price range, that is!).

I'm also considering steelies from modern cars (Chrysler 300?), just to find some wheels while I make up my mind about good alloy ones. Once the new discs are on, I won't be able to use any of my wheels....

Brake cooling is important. I think I'll mount one of the tires you suggested on my Police Steelies which are 15x7 with the cooling slots around the circumfrence, soon to be painted body color. That should shed a few pounds of unsprung weight, provide decent cooling, and save up for a set of lightweight aluminum wheels. Of good Taste of course. I really didnt want to say that the billet ones are ugly

Sorry for a long time not posting.

Is probably better install both? Bars and mono leaf springs?

Caltracs recommend the complete kit of bars+monoleaf springs+rancho 9000 adjustable shocks at $815 + shipping.

It is a good shock?
What's the best adjustement for track, soft or hard?

Plum Crazy, since your going with the Cal-Tracs, Dave or Fabian would have a better suggestion and experience than I , but to let you know, I have been using the Edelbrock I.A.S. shocks. The I.A.S. is for Inertia Activation System. It automatically "adjusts" from firm when the surface is smooth and straight, to loose when the road is irregular. I'm sure however, that there are much better designed dampers than these. The Rancho shocks you have are what I use on my Dodge Truck 4x4 truck and are very high quality as the shock is not outsourced. Rancho makes it's own shock bodies and the internals as well. I think adjustability on demand will come at a price.

Hi Eddie.

Caltracs arrived one week ago. I like that I saw, due to the bars are connected to the body in front and to the springs at rear using uniball system.
This improves drivability (I think) and "softer" cornering than others.

THe complete kit comes with monoleaf springs, and seems very strong. I'm not sure about its benefits but I read a lot of this kit and most of people are very happy.

Well it has to be better than a pinion snubber when you are talking about the sort of engine power you are packing now.

Keep us up to date with how you find it.

dave-r wrote:Keep us up to date with how you find it.

Sure

Duncan "Cannonball" Watts is running 9.45 ETs on super stock springs and a pinion snubber. No Caltracs. This is a full weight "street" car. All steel.
If he can sort out a slight missfire during the first 60ft he thinks it will go a little quicker.

Incredible, he is running faster than the Pro-Stockers back in 70 and they used coil overs and magnesium parts!