[DazzaB]

Hi All,
I need help on this one please. I have 72 chall rallye. I noticed a while ago that both my front tyres are severely worn on the outsides. I run 17 inch centerlines on the car. I have looked in the manual and put it down to excessive positive camber problem. At the weekend i found out where you can adjust it. There is two cam bolts, one each side of the upper control arm. I slackened these off and turned bolts, this in turn moved the arm up to straighten the wheel, however you have to guess as when you lower car the weight tends to move wheel back over. It seams impossible to access the cam bolts whilst the wheel is fitted. I turned the cam bolts and tried to position the upper control arm as far back as i can so when the car is dropped the wheel is straight and not lying at an angle. Since i have done this the the wheel is lying to far in now, but looks better. As a guide i am trying to align it best i can to the back wheel . I know there is a spec for this but need to know best way to set this up. Q: Has anyone done this job themselves, if so is there a way, any info greatly appreciated. P.S Does it also affect other components i.e tie rods etc.

[dave-r]

Well. If the camber was the only thing that was out you have done a good job to make sure both the toe and the caster angle are now all to pot as well.

You cannot eyeball this. It has to be done using professional alignment equipment and measuring tools. Otherwise you are going to die.

Get a professional (and you will have trouble finding one) to set the front wheels to the following specification.

0.5 - 0.75 degrees negative camber,

3/32-inch (just under 2.5mm) toe in,

and as much positive caster angle as you can get with the stock suspension parts. At least 2 degrees if you can. More the better.

[DazzaB]

Hello Dave, How you doing?

Cheers for that, do you know anyone local? What do other people do in this country especially after restos and the like? Someone must have done this at some point.

I know what your saying but I think the whole lot has been out anyway so probably not spoiling anything. I did mark up the areas so could return back but no point it needs sorting either way.

It isn't just wear on the outsides its so severe it has worn angles half way into the tires.

What about one of those four way laser alignment machines?

[dave-r]

I agree it was probably all wrong before you touched it.

Lasers are for adjusting the toe. Most tyre places will do that. You need a a place with real engineers. Not tyre monkeys. I use the place just around the corner from me. R&P Woods. You need to book well in advance though.

[DazzaB]

Great,

I'll drop it off and then come round to yours for me dinner

Joking aside never heard of them, so they obviously have all the equipment for all this set up? Do you have a ball park figure on cost and do you have the Tel number please.

[DazzaB]

Dave,

Found the number, Garage in Newton Rd.

Can they do all the geometry, Toe in Camber Caster and the like as long as i give them the specs out of the manual?

Cheers

[dave-r]

That's the one.

Give them the spec I gave you. They did mine for me (slightly different spec though). They are VERY good lads that know what they are doing. All the Skyline boys go there for rolling road tuning. Although I think that is out of action at the moment.

[DazzaB]

Will do,

On the cautious side of this, I think before i let loose the scientists, I am going to clean, inspect the wheel bearings as there is slight play, however i know you are allowed slight movement, need to check up in manual, but might as well check bearing condition and if ok re-pack with fresh grease.

I am going to check all rubber work on all the joints then arrange geometrical activity!!!

Ooh and one more thing, Headlights, i have just noticed that one of my outside headlights is rusty on the inside, closer inspection of the make states Hella made in Germany, now the other side has an old Y registration mark (both matching lights), would these be old capri lights, or is there anywhere i can get Dodge ones either new or second hand.
Alternatively any other source or other car they could be off.

Cheers Dave.

[dave-r]

I converted mine with hallogen lamps with side lights from the Hella place on Sandyford Road. It is an old fashioned place with men in brown coats that can tell what you need and where to find it with a glance.

As opposed to most places these days that cannot give you the time of day without looking it up on the computer. And even then they say "computer says no".

[dave-r]

Actually. Now I think of it I might have one spare original lamp. I will have a look tonight.

[DazzaB]

Get in!!!!

Let me know, and we will take it from there, cheers for all your massive library of info Dave.

[dave-r]

Yeah I have one spare. But while looking I found that I seem to have lost one of the inner high beam units! How the heck did that happen?

[DazzaB]

Cool,

The inner ones seam ok. Is the glass flatish on the outer head lamp beam and how much do you want for your spare one?

[dave-r]

Fiver will do.

[DazzaB]

Thats great,
You still on the same home number 2**11*3?

[dave-r]

Yeah.

[Daz]

Hi All,
I found this thread from 06 when i originally asked the question. Believe it or not I'm just about to do this job on my car. I have had the car laid up for a couple of years due to other comittments.
Reading the manual, there is settings for camber/Castor, that differs between the left and right hand side of the vehicle.
These are for Camber left hand side +1/4 deg to +3/4 deg, preferred +1/2deg
Right hand side 0deg to + 1/2deg, preferred + 1/4deg

My question is (Don't laugh ) what is classed as the left and right hand side of the car, is it viewing the car looking into the engine bay, so left would be the passenger side, or sitting in car drivers seat looking out of the windshield left would be drivers side?

Thanks
Daz

[fbernard]

Left is the driver's side.

Forget the different right/left settings, these date back from a time when roads were not flat and tires were not radial.

Left and right camber should be the same, as in any modern car. The perfect camber setting is 0 for tire wear and drag racing. A little negative camber will help in the corners, and is required for safe handling.

The values I would suggest are 1/16 to 1/8 toe-in (use the high value if you have soft shocks, the low value if you have hard ones), .5 to 1 deg negative camber (maybe more if you're into spirited driving on the country roads).
And as much positive caster as possible, but that's not really adjustable in itself.
Positive caster means the top of the spindle, viewed from the side, should be rearward of the wheel axis.
To have positive camber, the front excentric cam bolt should be turned outward (towards the fender), while the rear one is turned inward (towards the engine).
That will bring the upper control arm ball joint as far back as possible.
If you turn the front bolts all the way outward, turn the back bolts all the way inward, and turn the back ones back out until you reach the camber you want, that should give you the best possible caster setting with stock components.
After that, set toe-in.

Mopar suspension is not rocket science, quite a lot of cars used to be setup that way. Old Mercedes, and a lot of others.
Any guy who know his job and has been around a while will know how this suspension works.

[Daz]

Cheers for that 'F' i will use all the info you have supplied, the settings i highlighted are out of the original Dodge service shop manual!

You say get the toe-in done after that, can this be performed by myself or will i need to take it to a place, for set up.

Why i ask is i have managed to buy a really old Caster, Camber gauge of Ebay! it can do all the necessary i think apart from Toe-in?

Daz

[dave-r]

Daz. Wind the front cams to move the UCA bushings out to max.

Wind the rear cams to move the rear UCA bushings IN to the max.

This gives you max caster.

Now with the car level and the suspension at ride height, use your camber gauge to see what the camber angle is.

Wind the front bushings in a little until you get a 1/4 degree of negative camber.

Then get the toe in set and re-check the camber angle.

With your tyres and our roads you need a little negative camber. But not as much as I started earlier at the start this thread.

[Daz]

Cheers Dave,
Thats great, thanks to all thats helped, i'll let you know how i got on!!

Or yes Dave i got sorted with the headlights thanks, tried to contact the shop you were on about but just kept ringing. So i took the inner and outer out and took them to my local motor shop, no probs got a set of four, all for £42.00, it has freshened the front end up no end.
The only thing i had to do was, find housings for the side light bulbs, as the back of the headlight has a clear circular window, so i borrowed some rubber suction cups from work that are designed to pick up sheetmetal, and siliconed them on the back so the sidelight bulbs, can be positioned.

Just need to set the front end up then take it for M.O.T and then Free tax it (Love that bit LOL).

Cheers
Daz

[Daz]

Hi Dave & All

Just an update on my suspension set up at the weekend, and a few pics

Dave i have noticed after setting it up to your instruction, that the wheels look much better, however im convinced that the right side drivers side wheel looks like its sitting out over at the bottom and the left side looks square to the car. I have took pics see what you think!





Cheers

Daz

[Jon]

The camera angles are not exactly the same but judging from the vertical siding on the garage in the background it does look like the driver side is riding kinda like \.

The front end must be aligned by a pro though to really get it right. The spec presented here are what works best from others experience. You may need offset bushings or other options on the top (UCA) to make that work though. Getting enough Caster is the issue. Good luck.

[Daz]

Cheers Jon

[dave-r]

Daz. The only way to get the camber angle right is to measure it with the car level and the guage zero'd on a true verticle.

If you do not do that you will not have the same camber on each side.

How were you measuring the camber angle when you did this?

[Daz]

Daz. The only way to get the camber angle right is to measure it with the car level and the guage zero'd on a true verticle.

If you do not do that you will not have the same camber on each side.

How were you measuring the camber angle when you did this?

Dave,
I put the car on axle stands under the brake discs, not the disc itself the fat bit behind the main disc. Then i bounced the car to settle it, then fastened my camber gauge to one of the wheel studs, thats the type of gauge it is, really old fold down one off Ebay. Got it as vertical as possible then followed your instruction, the gauge read positive as expected, so i used front eccentric cam and adjusted to half degree neg.

The car is now on the road after passing mot. The car feels much better, since the suspension was adjusted, infact i attended the Mcdonalds meet last night at the metrocentre, what a turn out, loads of different cars there, i'll post pics soon.

Cheers
Daz

[dave-r]

If you have a true 1/2 a degree on each side the wheels will look the same each side and (if the chassis is straight) the cam bolt positions will be an exact mirror image of each other side to side.

[Eddie]

Daz, gorgeous Challenger! How do you like your tires? What brand are they? Do they grip well in the turns?(Twistys)? Thanks

[Daz]

Dave,
To be honest, i looked at the car head on last night and they look the same each side. When ive had a bit play in the car, i'll re-check the set up.
Tell you what though the car handles 100% to what it did, going round bends it holds very well cheers

Eddie Thanks for your comments, i'm currently given it some thought about repainting the car as its starting to come through in places, i want to keep the same colour but got custom ideas. My friend is very good with custom jobs.
Tyres on the back are brand new due to the car standing, the other tyres cracked in between the tread. These were Dunlop sports, now i have Kumho Ecsta sports 275/40/17's. On the front they are 255/40/17's one is Avon, other is Goodyear, these were part worn tyres, that replaced Dunlop sports due to burning angles into the treads caused by the excessive camber setting!

[dave-r]

Tell you what though the car handles 100% to what it did, going round bends it holds very well

Good! Glad to hear it.