Power to Manual Steering conversion • The Dodge Challenger Message Board

by **Johnny-D** » 04 Jul 2001 21:18

How hard is the conversion? I read that a longer steering shaft is necessary for the manual steering box - is this true? Can someone that has done this (like Dave-R) please describe the process and any lessons learned?

by **dave-r** » 05 Jul 2001 7:41

It is very easy. You just remove the pump and old steering box and fit the manual box. It is a LOT lighter and smaller and gives you lots of room for headers and around the oil pump. As the new box is much smaller the steering column will now not reach so you need to either fit a steering column shaft from a manual steered car or get the adaptor from Firm Feel that fills the gap.

The only drawback to fitting one is that the steering is VERY heavy with wide wheels and tyres. On the road it is fine and I like it but parking or driving slowly around corners is a pain.

by **Johnny-D** » 05 Jul 2001 11:43

Thanks Dave-R. Do you per chance know how much the adapter from Firm Feel cost? I am going to check out their web site (now).

by **Johnny-D** » 05 Jul 2001 11:53

Well, I checked their web site - $125.00 for the adapter seems kind of high to me so my next question is how hard would it be to fit the steering column shaft (from the donor car) to my steering column? I assume that not all shafts will work so does anyone happen to know what ones will?

by **dave-r** » 05 Jul 2001 15:37

Considering the amount of grief you could have in trying to do this unless you find a manual steering column exactly the same as yours $125 starts to look cheap.

by **Duane Phillips** » 24 Jul 2001 17:53

This is a timely subject because I am thinking very seriously about going the other way - manual to power. I have most of the parts to go to a power set-up (except the box is just a core). I do still need to find a power steering column. But is it worth it? The main reason I want to do it is that low speed steering with the manual box is a bear. I just recently learned that my alignment is off - I don't think the 0 to - 1 degree caster is set, even though I had the front end rebuilt (I think the caster is positive). Also, from reading the 14X6 tire conversation, I think my tires are way too wide for my original 14 X 5.5 wheels. Can I get better steering performance out of the manual set-up? I have headers on my 318 now and it sounds like they might have to go if I proceed with power steering.

Thanks folks,
Duane

by **dave-r** » 24 Jul 2001 19:28

It would help if the caster was kept to about 1-2 degrees positive so that the steering self centers. Any more than that and it will feel heavier

The thinner the front tyres the easier it will be to steer.

Your 318 engine is about 2 inches narrower than my 440 so you should have more header clearance.

by **Johnny-D** » 25 Jul 2001 1:55

Duane, Are you located in the states?

by **Duane Phillips** » 25 Jul 2001 12:25

Johnny-D, Yes I live in Frederick Maryland, about 45 min west of Baltimore and an hour north of DC. This is a great town for old cars; there are a number of engine rebuilders and other automotive services available, plus many old muscle cars. We also have a very active drag strip in the area. My car spent its life here; I bought it at one of the big summer car shows in Carlisle Pennsylvania in 95.

Dave-R - it is good to talk to you again; this forum is super and is the only all-Challenger site I've seen. Turns out my tires are 205 70R14s so they are not quite as wide as I thought. The tech guru in my Mopar car club told me he thinks they are too wide for easy manual steering though. When I bought them, I had little time to research the issue - it was just after I bought the car and the old tires were literally rotting off. I am sure they were very close to the original tires. The shocks were very old as well. Anyway, I plan to replace the wheels as the original magnums are pretty ratty; would 15 inch wheels be an improvement for handling if I keep the manual steering? I would think narrower wheels in front and wider in back (e.g., 15X6 front, 15X7 back). Something like this might be cheaper and easier than the full blown manual to power conversion.

Also, my car will not return to center so I know the caster is wrong for manual. I wonder what difference it will make when I get the realignment done.

Thanks,
Duane

by **dave-r** » 25 Jul 2001 14:39

May be even harder after adding some caster so that it returns to center!

I don't think you will feel any difference with a taller wheel. In fact I would guess that it would increase resistance to turning if anything.

But so what. It's cheaper than a gym membership!

by **Duane** » 25 Jul 2001 18:52

I will let you know what happens. In the meantime, it is comforting to know that my workouts help me steer my car!

by **Johnny-D** » 25 Jul 2001 22:56

Duane, If you decide to convert to power steering, I'll swap with you if you would like too. I live in Fredericksburg, VA - about an hour from Frederick MD, (dependant on 95 traffic).

by **Duane** » 26 Jul 2001 16:09

Johnny,

You may just have decided me. My column is black.

Is your Fredericksburg VA the one of Civil War fame? That may be a 2 hr distance.

Please e-mail me at dhphilli@hotmail.com

Duane

by **Joel** » 01 Aug 2001 10:01

Hmmmmmmm. Duane, do you feel like making your new power-steering unit into a T/A quick ratio upgrade? You would only have to turn the wheel twice from lock to lock! You can read out the subject in an earlier thread that I had started with dave a while ago. It also has a link to a web page that gets deeper into the suject, just incase you are interested in the idea.

by **Duane** » 01 Aug 2001 19:24

Joel,

Thanks for the info, I will read up on it.

Was quick ration steering originally designed for competition in the T/A race?

Thanks,
Duane

by **Joel** » 01 Aug 2001 21:12

I am not quite sure about it, but if they used the quick ratio for the production version of the T/A race car, most likely it was used on the race car as well. From what I read from Anthony Young's book about the history about Mopar muscle cars, the only difference in the race version and the production version of the T/A Challenger was the modification of the engine to increase the horsepower.

by **Alex** » 01 Aug 2001 22:09

Oh, they never acid dipped the shells then?

by **Joel** » 02 Aug 2001 9:38

You know, Anthony Young's book Mighty Mopars did not say anything much about the race cars. All they said was that the porduction model and the race version were visually identical. I am sure if Dave reads this thread, he could straighten this out with all that lovely head knowledge of his.

by **dave-r** » 02 Aug 2001 9:58

Stop crawling Joel! It don't suit you.

I am not very up on the T/A cars at all. A very nice guy keeps sending me scans of T/A stuff for my web site which will get up on there one day but non of it is about the race cars. They are a mystery to me....

by **Joel** » 02 Aug 2001 20:30

Oh, I guess we are both in the same boat then.

by **Duane** » 27 Sep 2001 16:05

Just an update, Jonny D and I got together in late August and swapped his power steering into my car. He put my manual column in his car a few days later. I was able to drive home that (long) day, a 2 hour trip. The worst part was having to disassemble the driver-side header in order to install the power box. Also the fusible link got broken in the process - it made for a rather interesting time until we figured out why it was that the car wouldn't start.

Also, it turns out that there is a spectacular amount of play in a power steering box before you add power steering fluid. Don't even ask how we found this out. With the box properly filled and bled, I now know that fingertip steering with a Challenger really is possible. Thanks Jonny!

by **Joel** » 30 Sep 2001 6:43

AHAHAHAHAHAHA. I guess you can no longer due your arm exercises in your car while trying to find a parking space at your local mall anymore q;^)

by **Joel** » 30 Sep 2001 6:45

Dang it. I couldnt' stop the posting in time to correct my spelling, oh well.

by **Duane** » 01 Oct 2001 15:36

No, I have to use my weight set like a normal person.

I still have to put a new dust boot on the pitman arm so I am not driving it too much; I have a set of boots on order.

In driving around, I notice that the steering is soft to the point that even a slight wind seems to take away some road feel. Maybe it is just a perception, as I have mostly new parts up front - new lower and upper control arm bushings, and new shocks. Short of the new sway bar and new strut bushings I still need to add, the car should be as tight as a possible. I'm used to driving a Dodge Intrepid, which gives a lot of road feel; must be the difference between lower-power steering and modern suspension vs. the older set-up. That being said, the car is actually fun to drive now. There is very little actual "play".

Also, I stopped this weekend to admire an absolutely beautiful 1970 440 'Cuda at a local parking lot. It was a bronze/orange color I had never seen, and was recently restored by the owner with paint help from a local shop. I now consider myself inspired.

by **Joel** » 03 Oct 2001 8:01

You know, my brother, I have three by the way, who owned a '71 'Cuda that had the same color of paint that you just discribed. You would think it was a bad color. Perhaps I can email dave a pic of my brother Dan's '71 'Cuda and my brother Tim's '72 Challenger, which I later bought from him and is now being restored, parked side by side.