[MLMFLCN]

Thought I would drive the challenger one more time today. Hopped in and it cranked over but kept stalling. Almost seemed to be the ignition falling into off as opposed to run. Messed with it for a while and got it running. Changed the ballast resistor, but i dont think that was it. Took on a light cruise and it stalled on me. Nursed it home and it nearly stalled in the garage but then seem to smooth out. Turned it off and started up again and it seemed better, but still rough.

With the key in run (not running) and a little warm had 4.9 v at the positive side of the coil and 1.9 on the negative. Ballast measured resistance of 1.5. I have a mopar electronic ignition kit, orange box etc. Ballast was 10.3 on the starter side and 4.9 on the other in run mode.

Has been really reliable up to today. Drove about 30 miles yesterday and all was good.

Thanks for any help out there

[MLMFLCN]

Started again and only getting 7.2 volts while running at the coil. Should be 12 no? Is this the coil or ecu (many have said the orange boxes are junk)? What other tests to figure this out. Thanks again

Rich

[Adrian Worman]

Typical Mopar electrical issues that we've all been lucky enough to enjoy

Bulkhead connector, ignition wire conn block under steering column and ignition switch, start at these and work your way through

The wires get hot with poor conns from everywhere and cause the fluctuating resistance and eventually a fire, get it sorted before you are tempted to take it on another spin out on the road.

Or better yet fit a Painless loom kit and feel very safe

[MLMFLCN]

Pulled the coupling off the orange box and with the key in run I have 11.4 volts at two of the terminals (1 and 3 o'clock positions). Not sure if that has any bearing. Thanks

Rich

[MLMFLCN]

Thanks Adrian. So the voltage should be 12 volts at the coil with the engine running correct? Not sure how 7.2 is even enough to keep it running. Old wiring would lead to this problem? starting to think painless is the way to go. Thanks

[Adrian Worman]

No the coil will only get 12 v at cranking, the ballast resister is there to limit the coil voltage to about 8 or 9 v when the motors running.
The hardest part about hot terminals and old wire and insulation is that it keeps giving different results every time you put the meter on it.
Have a scan of the electrical section for problems like these on older topics, loads of really good info and links on there

[MLMFLCN]

Weird. Wiring under the dash seems cool, just warm to the touch.

Now I am not getting any voltage at the coil in the run mode or at the ballast resistor but the car starts fine. voltage is only a little over 5 now when running at the coil. That can't be right and must be the reason for the crappy idle.

I must be losing it

[Adrian Worman]

Start by removing all the engine bay wiring conns from the bulkhead connector, wire brush and lubricate all spades and sockets and try it again.
Then go to the flat multiblock conn under the column as it disappears up to the ign switch , have a look at the bullet conn for the thick red wire, any sign of blackness or corrosion ?

[MLMFLCN]

Seems to be the blue ignition wire that goes to the ballast resistor. Keep losing voltage at the ballast and the engine dies. Will try to clean up. When I get it running the coil positive voltage is only 5 to 6 volts. Is this right? Thanks adrian

[Adrian Worman]

No, you're still losing some voltage, aim for 8 or 9 volts if you can, ign switch could be at fault.
The ign side of the ballast and the bypass should be getting battery voltage

[MLMFLCN]

Thanks Adrian for all the posts today. Asking Santa for a painless kit There is a lot of corrosion so short of cleaning each terminal I think I am just going to have problems down the road. Seems like fixing all is the way to go.

Do those painless systems fuse blocks fit right in the stock opening? Look like a nice kit. Probably a lot of value for $500.

At least I have something to work on in the spring.

[Jon]

IMO, Cleaning and securing the connectors would save you around $500. Then again the time spent on either project might be the same.

[dave-r]

The painless kit is no good if you want to keep the car looking original. But it is much better if you want everything to work.

Sounds to me like it could be the ignition switch at fault. Maybe the connector under the steering column if you are lucky but those ignition switches do not last forever.

[MLMFLCN]

Thanks guys. It is the connection as I changed the ignition switch a couple years ago. Wiggling the harness with the key in run gets voltage to the ballast. It is certainly the ignition wires. The plastic harness is just really cracked and I have had to pull out the starter wire to the relay and main red wire to bypass the harness. Looks like a fire hazard to me. Want to trust the dodge like a "real" car someday

Do you have to modify where the new painless fuse block fits through the firewall?

Voltage has never really registered at optimal levels, will this change the way the car runs/operates overall? The ballast, for example, was never actually at 12 volts. Always a little under.

Thanks again all

Rich

[dave-r]

The painless fusebox mounts anywhere you want under the dash and the wires for the engine bay need to run through a hole and rubber gromet. You could plate over where the existing fuse box is and put the grommet in that.

When i did mine I soldered rather than crimmed as much as possible and used relays for the headlights. Ended up with 14 volts everywhere. That made everything run much better and with less current.

[MLMFLCN]

Very cool. Thanks Dave

Rich

[Adrian Worman]

My kit came with aplate to cover the hole left by the conn block.
I left my new fuse block loose so I can just pull it up and check fuses whenever I want, easy
..... and battery voltage everywhere

[MLMFLCN]

Thanks Adrian. Do you remember if it was the painless kit 10127? Seems like that is the only Chrysler full harness they sell. Did you also solder as Dave did? I am good with copper plumbing and sweating fittings not so good with soldering wiring

[Adrian Worman]

Yeah, that's the one, Mopar specific 12 circuit wiring kit .

You'll need a small amount of extra wire to provide but only for a couple of jobs and only a few feet, any regular parts counter will have it.

I crimped some conns and soldered some others, all depended on the connection, but remember you will only be making the end conns, the fuse box is already wired for you.

Allow yourself one clear weekend and remove the dash and the seats, it sounds a bit extreme but it made the job so much easier for me.

While your at it, do the electronic reg mod to the back of the instrument cluster, change the ballast resistor wiring to the single feed system and install a new electronic volt reg of the highest quality and make sure everything is earthed properly.
I also changed the crap Mopar starter relay for a much more robust Ford unit, same wiring tho.

I know it seems like extra work but I can jump in my 72 and drive it anywhere with confidence, greedy 440 allowing of course

Good luck mate, one of the most effective mods you can make to a Mopar

[MLMFLCN]

Thanks again Adrian.

On the "electronic re mod", is this bypassing the in dash ammeter? I would like to run a volt-meter, easy to do? I imagine this is two birds with one stone kind of thing.

On my ballast, I got rid of the 4 terminal, and went with the two, is that what you mean here?

I have the black box volt regulator, has worked fine (once I realized it wasn't grounding ). Is that is a good unit?

I like the confidence thing too, I was just getting there with mine, until yesterday Did not strand me though!

Thanks again for all the sage advice!

- rich

[Adrian Worman]

No, the dash mod is for the 4 instruments and replaces the crap factory 5 volt reg with a unit made of parts you get from Radio Shack for about 5 bucks and gives a steady and reliable voltage to the gauges

Ammeter removal is easy cos the Painless kit does away with it (unless you want to use it in which case it gives you the option), so fit a volt meter under the dash anyway.

Yeah, you're bang on with the ballast mod, interestingly Mopar Perf now recommend actually removing the ballast altogether according to an article i saw recently in Mopar Action

..........and lastly that volt reg will be fine, just make sure its electroic and not mechanical

[dave-r]

If the coil is a "12 volt" coil (i.e. designed to run at full battery voltage) like a MSD blaster coil then you don't need a ballast resistor.

The idea of the resistor is to give you a stronger spark when starting from cold. But a good electronic ignition system will start from cold every time without it.

A stock type coil designed to be used with a resistor might run too hot at full voltage though.

[burdar]

I've heard the Painless harnesses are anything but painless. Buy a new harness from M&H(Year One) and be done with it. These cars aren't used as daily transportation any more. We take much better care of them too. A new harness with a good amount of dialectric grease on the connectors with be fine. My $.02

If you're running extra non factory accessories, then some modifications to the factory harness would be a good idea.

[Adrian Worman]

I've heard the Painless harnesses are anything but painless. Buy a new harness from M&H(Year One) and be done with it. These cars aren't used as daily transportation any more. We take much better care of them too. A new harness with a good amount of dialectric grease on the connectors with be fine. My $.02

If you're running extra non factory accessories, then some modifications to the factory harness would be a good idea.

Don't agree with that at all, case in point...................had a faulty alternator that earthed itself thru the field terminals, Painless wiring system coped without any drama, main fuse blew, no damage to the loom or the fusebox...........................factory type system would have caught fire and melted in a shot

[dave-r]

It is the bulkhead connector that lets the mopar wiring down. Plus of course the quality of wires has come on i leaps and bounds since these cars were made.

The painless wires are half as thick but can carry much more current and are very fire resistant. The wires are welded to the fuse box. So the only connections are at the far end of the cable. The fuse box is small and uses modern blade type fuses.

You will have to run the odd wire not included in the kit. And re-use the connectors under the steering column. But otherwise I thought the kit was very good indeed.

But again I have to stress that this is not the best way to go if you are after a stock looking restoration.

[MLMFLCN]

Hey All,

Finally have my painless kit, removed the dash and all interior and began installing the kit. Had a few questions and comments. The attached photo is the flat connector from the original harness that mates to the harness on the steering column (ignition and turn signals). Seems difficult to get apart to insert to the painless wires. Would you recommend just attaching bullet connectors and going one by one to install the new wiring into the steering column harness? How have you guys made these connections?

I have all the main areas mapped off and routed, just need to start installing. Bigger job than I first imagined. Thinking about skipping the ammeter wiring in the dash and just going right through the firewall to the solenoid. Thoughts on this? Finally, was planning to mostly crimp the connections, and solder just where there is a junction of three or more wires, or should all be soldered and shrinkwrapped?

Also, kind of surprised how much of the original harness need to be under the dash portion. Engine bay, front harness and rear were pretty complete, but much of the interior needs to be retained. Car had a/c, thinking about just removing all the wiring for that since my dash and engine are not set up for a/c. May clean it up a bit too.

Any other tips? Thanks as always.

[MLMFLCN]

One more thought... the painless kit came with a 70 amp in line fuse to replace the fusible link from the battery to the fuse panel. I think this is great.

Any tricks in the install here? Was going to find a spot under the hood and mount. Sound okay?

Thanks again all, maybe 2 more days and I will be back on the road.

[Adrian Worman]

I fitted that big bunch of ignition column wires with big bullet connectors only so I could remove the column easily, the rest of the harness is soldered, shrink wrapped and braided where needed.
That Maxifuse is a godsend, mine blew after some dickhead at my nephews workshop screwed with my alternator wiring, it saved EVERY part if the harness without damage, very impressed
I reckon the whole job took me a week working evenings, dead easy too, I could do the same to my Barracuda in a weekend now

[dave-r]

I carefully removed each pin in the connector, soldered them onto the new wires, and re-fitted them into the original connector.

Solder ALL connections except where you may need to disconnect at some point. In those cases solder on bullet connectors that can be parted. Anything crimped will eventually increase in resistance and drop the voltage.

[MLMFLCN]

Thanks guys, using all those tips.

One more question, for the red mold (constant hot), I was thinking of using the painless red wire (constant)provided to the radio (which I don't think the original harness had). This circuit would then power the cigar lighter and glove box lamp. The painless fuse is 10 amp and the old was 20 amp. See any issues with that?

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