Do I change my ignition barrel or shoot myself! • The Dodge Challenger Message Board

by **Adrian Worman** » 26 Nov 2009 21:39

Mates, please help...I'm very frustrated.
The freshly rebuilt 440 in my '72 is having some problems once warmed up. I've been getting it ready to take for the MOT and letting it run for 20 minutes, so I could set the timing and make a few final idle adjustments.
I appear to have two problems, but I think they may be related by one component. The major problem manifests itself after about 10 minutes of the motor ticking over nicely, the revs drop so low and idle becomes so rough that the motor cuts out. When I go to restart it the starter can't turn the hot motor over. If I wait 10 mins and connect a battery booster it will crank over straight away. It always restarts however sometimes it's still a bit rough but the revs will unexpectedly rise and the idle smooth out for 15-20 secs, then drop back down to rough idle.
The second problem is that when the ignition switch is in cranking position and the motor turns over quite freely, when I release the key back to the ignition 'on' position the starting motor is still engaged, I have to flick the key backwards and forwards until the motor cuts out and ignition is off. This sometimes takes a few goes and even with the key entirely in the 'off' position the motor is still running and starter still cranking.I have to flick key backwards and forwards until the motor eventually stops. This doesn't happen all the time, but I've had it probably a dozen times out of 100 starts.
Is it possible that the ignition switch is over heating either at the switch or in part of the loom down to the steering column connector which is causing a drop in current to the ignition circuit?
I've just installed a Painless Mopar specific wiring harness kit, but that doesn't include the loom from the bottom of the steering column up to the ignition switch and back. A little while back Eddie diagnosed a poor electrical connection where the connector blocks join at the bottom of the steering column. The connector had become so hot it had melted the plastic connector block. Unfortunately although the connector block has been removed to fit into the Painless kit, the previous loom is still what runs up and down the steering column...is it possible the fault lies there?
Help me mates, I'm DESPERATE!

by **dave-r** » 26 Nov 2009 21:47

Sounds like a knackered ignition switch for a start.

Funny enough mine is not too clever at the moment either. I was thinking of getting a new one. Maybe we could order two between us and save a bit on the postage?

Once you have a working switch then you can concentrate on what else might be wrong. But it sounds as if you are loosing voltage somewhere. Maybe it is part of the switch problem or maybe it is somewhere else?
I would replace the switch first and then see where you are.

by **Adrian Worman** » 27 Nov 2009 19:19

I looked on Year One and they have a genuine Chrysler part for $135 and a pattern part for $85, both include the wire and terminal block. I'm gonna speak to my mates at USAutomotive and JohnWoolfeRacing tomorrow and see what they stock and how much. Keep you posted mate.

by **Adrian Worman** » 02 Dec 2009 12:22

I've managed to get the steering wheel can off, the turn signal housing and bearing and now I'm down to the round plate with the notches for the steering lock. In one of the posts someone published a guide to column service and in it they describe driving a pin out of the shaft to release that plate. I've got 4 little dimples around that collar but when I tried to knock them out it just appears to dent the metal. Any ideas?

by **dave-r** » 02 Dec 2009 12:32

Never gone any further than that myself.

I had better get started doing the same thing as I am not sure if my ignition barrel is fixable or not. (might be just a wire off or one bad contact).

Have you got the full service manual?

by **dave-r** » 02 Dec 2009 12:36

It says "Press out. Do not try to knock the pin out". :s008:

Should be just the one pin though?

by **Adrian Worman** » 02 Dec 2009 16:04

Thats the kiddy! I'll try that later tonight. Good job I didn't persevere with tthe little hammer, I guess its to prevent bending the shaft.
Cheers for that Dave, lot of help :thumbsup:

by **dave-r** » 02 Dec 2009 16:09

I can't think of any way to press mine out at the moment. I might have to resort to the hammer and a nail punch. :s008:

by **Challyride** » 02 Dec 2009 16:19

Don't know if this helps anyone but it might be worth a look www.moparmusclemagazine.com/...mopar_st ... index.html

by **dave-r** » 02 Dec 2009 16:23

Link does not work?

by **Challyride** » 02 Dec 2009 16:27

Just found that out. Sorry, but if you type in mopar steeering column rebuild on google it should show mopar muscle magazine link and you can go from that. Sorry again but good article none the less. Cheers

by **dave-r** » 02 Dec 2009 16:33

Was doing just that while you were replying. :wink:

http://www.moparmusclemagazine.com/howt ... index.html

by **Challyride** » 02 Dec 2009 16:35

Glad someone knows how to link up. LMAO. Thanks Dave

by **dave-r** » 02 Dec 2009 16:37

Yeah that helps thanks. :thumbsup:

Going tohave to pull the whole column from the car to make it easier I think.

by **Adrian Worman** » 02 Dec 2009 16:54

Ahh! Brilliant, that thin sheet metal cover is what was denting . Need to remove that , cos its so dusty and rusty inside I could'nt make that bit out. Thanks :thumbsup:

by **Adrian Worman** » 02 Dec 2009 22:07

All done. Once the tin cover had been twisted off the roll pin drifted out very easily.Switch is held in with 3 screws and lifts out very easily. Nothing but loads of dust and grit in the switch housings. I can't think of a more effective abrasive, little wonder the things fail :!:

by **bradburm** » 03 Dec 2009 3:01

I fought a similar problem for years with my Chally, thought initially it was fuel but ultimately it was electrical.

Here were the symptoms: Car would start and run for 10/20 minutes no problem at good idle then would get very rough not idle and be extremely difficult to start again until everything cooled.

I searched high and low and found this connector/plug resting on the manifold and the casing had burnt through thus causing the short ultimately making the car idle rough and die.

Not sure you have same issue but I would focus on a short somewhere assuming all obvious voltage issues are fine.

I attached a pic also............Good Luck

by **Adrian Worman** » 03 Dec 2009 11:37

I've installed a Painleess Mopar specific wiring loom so don't have any issues ( I hope!) with that bulkhead connector any more. Sure its the ignition switch, pulled it out last night and the wires are very stiff and look a bit black when you cut the insulation back.

by **dave-r** » 03 Dec 2009 11:46

Yes I have a small voltage drop between voltage into the switch and voltage out as well as zero volts out on the accessories circuit. So I am expecting to find my wires in a similar state too.

I was going to make a start on taking my column apart last night Ade but;

a) I had to cook dinner (Lambs Liver and onions in gravy :mrgreen:

)
b) It was pigging cold in the garage and I couldn't be arsed. :s017:

by **Adrian Worman** » 03 Dec 2009 13:01

If I worked out my time from start to finish without the stopping to check information then it took me no more than half an hour. Nothing leaps out or pings off to surprise you so its well safe. Its gonna take longer to clean and paint the column cover and housings than installation.
I had the big brown idiot Herman laying right across me while I was dismantling the column so I stayed lovely and warm :lol:

by **dave-r** » 06 Dec 2009 20:03

Got mine out while the potatoes and carrots were cooking for dinner tonight. :wink:

Well what i suspected turned out to be correct. The switch is knacked. So I need a new one.

How about yourself Adrian? Shall we order two and maybe save a little on the postage and VAT?

by **Adrian Worman** » 06 Dec 2009 23:25

I ordered one from my mates at USAutomotive in Bedford last week and its supposed to be here Tuesday. Cost £80+vat , let you know quality and how much is included when I collect it, thought that was a reasonable price. I've got an account and only need to phone order through :thumbsup:

by **dave-r** » 07 Dec 2009 8:46

That is a reproduction then yes?

Yeah let me know how good it is. :thumbsup:

I removed mine with the column still in the car as I already painted it a while ago. It was much faster that way.
To support the top of the steering shaft when I knocked the pin out I just bolted the column housing back to the bottom of the dash and wedged a long 7/16ths socket between the shaft and the inside of the housing.

by **dave-r** » 08 Dec 2009 11:23

Adrian Worman wrote:I ordered one from my mates at USAutomotive in Bedford last week and its supposed to be here Tuesday.

Hope it turns up today. Fingers crossed it fixes at least some of your problems if not all of them.

Did they have any more in stock?

It is probably this one that sells for $85.50 in the US.

03747092 Ignition Switch (1970-74 E-Body, 1970-76 A-Body and 1970-74 B- & C-Body)

by **Adrian Worman** » 08 Dec 2009 14:58

Hi Dave, my mate at USAuto reckoned it came with some chrome trim and other stuff.I was worried he was just talking about the lock barrel but he assured me it was a complete switch assy, wire and all.
I'll soon find out, going to collect it tomorrow if it turns up. They did'nt stock 'em but reckoned it only took 5days to get from their American warehouse .
Keep you posted mate. Labrador meat stealing story made me larf :lol:

by **Adrian Worman** » 09 Dec 2009 14:52

Just collected it Dave, its a pattern part made by Standard and the product code is US88, says its for all you described without tilt . It looks identical to the pic you showed me except for some heavy insulation on the cble. If I get the order to them by ttomorrow morning I can still get one for next Tuesday if your interested. I'll just post it up to you after Ive collected it. Let me know if thats of any help mate.Ttotal was £92 in the end, didn't seem bad to me :thumbsup:

by **dave-r** » 09 Dec 2009 15:31

Yeah OK mate. If you could sort one out for me that would be great. Shall I pay them direct or pay you?

by **Adrian Worman** » 09 Dec 2009 17:12

Leave me to get it and post it to you Dave and we'll sort out the queens mugshots afterwards. Is your column fixed or tilt? That was the only option as far as I can remember

by **dave-r** » 09 Dec 2009 18:16

Fixed.

No tilt on Challengers!

by **patrick** » 10 Dec 2009 6:07

dave-r wrote:Fixed.

No tilt on Challengers!

Would have been a good option though. :wink:

Especially for some of us bigger folks. :roll: