The Dodge Challenger Message Board

HI all, can anyone with some ignition experience perhaps enlighten me on what is happening with my 360. I fired it up today for the first time in the car. After not being started for 3 months, just a bit of fuel down the carby and it fired up first crank and stayed going with no hint of stopping. It was happily sitting on 1500RPM so i let it stay there until it had properly warmed up since it had not been run for so long. The carb throttle was backed off as far as possible, so i assumed it was too far advanced to be idling so fast.

Now i turned it off and turned dizzy (it is standard electronic ignition, black box) clockwise to retard timing. Is this correct? Since the rotor turns clockwise inside the dizzy, turning clockwise to retard, anticlockwise to advance? But when i started it again, it was racing even faster. I turned the dizzy the other way, advancing (anti-clockwise) while it was running and it slowed down! I turned it until i could not turn it any more and the vacuum capsule was pointing to the middle of the fender and it was idling slightly roughly about 1100RPM by my new electronic tacho.

Now i checked the timing - weird, the timing marks on the balancer were nowhere to be seen and it was jumping around a little. There is another marked line on the balancer that was visible. After stopping the engine, i found out that the timing marks were about 90-110 degrees anticlockwise of this mark that i could see when it was running.

What can this mean? The engine surely could not be running 180deg out, it was going too well for that. Could i have dialled the cam in wrong (it was dialled in around 0-2degrees) or could the dizzy be lined up wrong?

Thanks for any advice.

The dizzy turns clockwise rotation on small blocks. At TDC the rotor faces the #8 cylinder. (Passenger side, rear of head as the engine is sitting in the car.) With the timing tab bring the engine up to TDC and the rotor should point to the #8 This diagram may help Steve, disregard the 'Magnum' they are the same as the LA engines as far as firing order dizzy rotation, and all that good stuff. I would try turning it the other way while running, it should settle down. You might have to turn the idle back up when it's at the desired timing.

If it started and is running fast it has to be between 15 and 25 degrees advanced.

There could be several things wrong here.

Most obvious is are you sure you have your timing light on #1 or #6 plug lead? You can use either of those two wires as they both fire at TDC on the crank. I always use #6 as it saves running the cable past the fan on my 440.

Next thing it could be is the timing mark or damper. The timing mark was on opposite sides of the timing cover depending on year. So your balancer has to be matched with the correct year timing cover.

Check where your timing mark ends up when your #1 piston is at TDC. Make sure where TDC is with a piston stop. I have had to make a timing mark for people with small blocks many times.

The last thing I can think of is a failing damper. When they start to fail the outer ring slips around the inner section - changing the position of the timing mark.

thanks for quick replies guys - correction, i just rechecked and that groove i was talking about is exactly 180 deg from the true timing marks. So perhaps i have the rotor in 180 out? I will do Eddie's checks and your check for TDC tomorrow (its 2.35am now, time for bed). Still, though, that wouldn't account for it slowing down while advancing it. I will check the balancer for slippage but it wouldn't slip exactly 180. I have the timing lead on #1, yes, and the timing tab is cast into the cover. The balancer also has its own timing mark graduations as well, so maybe that's off an earlier engine?

Thanks again, will let you know the outcome

If it was 180 out it wouldn't run at all.

dave-r wrote:If it was 180 out it wouldn't run at all.

Yes that's what i thought. But i had been worrying that maybe i dialled in the cam wrong, and somehow it was only running on these weird settings. BUt in any case, my mopar mechanic came over this arvo and we checked it. First checked to see all the leads were on the right plugs. The timing light was on #1. Rotated eng by hand to get it to #1 piston TDC and the dizzy was way out - very retarded, but we still don't know why it ran so well, even if it was fast. Anyway he suspected a bad air leak as well. We got it running fairly nicely at about 15deg initial, but then it started racing again. This, we found (he found actually!) was caused by two things. First, even though i thought the throttle plates and idle screw were backed right off, the throttle cable i had installed was pulled too far back so it was if the accelerator was being pushed slightly. Also, it being an old Thermoquad, there was huge amounts of play in the primary throttle shaft (about 5mm up and down!). He said this could easily account for a 400-500RPM variation at idle. There is also a possible baseplate gasket vac leak. So now it is running a lot better, tomorrow will put a newly rebuilt TQ on and should be all good.

PS, Eddie, are you sure the rotor should point at #8 at TDC? In the service manual, it says to install the distributor drive shaft with the slot pointing more or less towards the first intake manifold bolt on the driver side, which is roughly about 7-9 degrees around from #1. see picture. And so then the #1 terminal on the dizzy cap is heading that way as well, although if advanced around 15deg, the #1 lead/terminal will be more towards #3. Maybe you mean the vacuum advance capsule, because we found that pointing that way at TDC. ?

thanks very much

Sorry Steve, you are correct the rotor should point to the #1 cylinder. It shows the #1 terminal on the cap thats pointing to the #8 cylinder.