The Dodge Challenger Message Board

Hi All,
I have a problem with starting the car. The problem is a couple of days a go the car would start no problem, then once at full temperature if i switch the car off then try to to restart, it was like the battery was flat. Today i started the car no problem, ran it to temperature and checked the battery with a multimeter, which read 13.6. then switched car off and nothing. All i could hear was a click, didn't crank over anything, checked battery again ok. Car now just clicks! i have also put the car into N and still nothing.
In the manual it say it could be ignition switch, or starter relay?

If anyone can help, could you explain, where exactly components are, and how to test these please! need to rectify ASAP!

Much appreciated

Daz

Daz, how much resistance are you getting when you test the leads from both battery terminals? (In series, not across the battery terminals). It sure sounds like a ground problem. Is the negative batt terminal tight? Is the lead going to the starter relay secured and the lead going to the starter post,(Hot), secured? Here is a diagram showing how to test for voltage drops if the grounds check out OK on the battery and starter/relay/solenoid connections. A battery load test will rule the battery out.

If you dont like voltage drops we can show how to test for resistance. Either way will give you the same answer if you manipulate OHMS law.The starter relay is near the battery Daz. The starter solenoid is attached to the starter motor itself, just follow the thick RED lead down to it, it will be attached with a nut on the stud and cable. You can ground the other lead to the battery negative ot the exhaust manifold/engine block ecttt Hope this helps, let us know! BTW, move the shift lever around while you attempt cranking, it could also be a bad nuetral safety switch, if it intermittently starts or stops while cranking as you move the shift lever it's the NSS.

airfuelEddie wrote:Daz, how much resistance are you getting when you test the leads from both battery terminals? (In series, not across the battery terminals). It sure sounds like a ground problem. Is the negative batt terminal tight? Is the lead going to the starter relay secured and the lead going to the starter post,(Hot), secured? Here is a diagram showing how to test for voltage drops if the grounds check out OK on the battery and starter/relay/solenoid connections. A battery load test will rule the battery out.

Hi Eddie,
The test was done across the battery terminals, 13.6V. I don't know what you mean by (In series, not across the battery terminals) I'm not an expert with Electrical stuff LOL.
The battery negative wasn't tight yesterday but power was there but i will tighten when i have another look, however, when i used the car a couple of nights ago, the terminals were tight, however still, had problem!.
I will print these instructions off and take them with me, to follow, so i can have another look.

Thanks Ed

Daz wrote:I'm not an expert with Electrical stuff LOL.

Me to.

I guess that there can be a lot of reasons for this to happen. Dozens of years ago, a friend of mine had similar problems with his ´69 SS Chevelle. The reason in his case was a too short distance between the starter and the headders, causing the starter to overheat (I think). My buddy was convinced that the supplier of headders and the suppier of starters had done this on purpose just to be able to sell more starters...

Another things worth checking are the connectors to the starter and if any of the starter wires have been to close to the headders, causing a short cut.

Finally, I have learned that the starter solenoid from time to time givs people a hard time. Just try to knock (gently) on the small part of the starter just to see of the solenoid jumps into the correct position (it use to get stuck?)

As I already have stated - I am not an electrician. Good luck!

christer wrote:

Daz wrote:I'm not an expert with Electrical stuff LOL.

Me to.

I guess that there can be a lot of reasons for this to happen. Dozens of years ago, a friend of mine had similar problems with his ´69 SS Chevelle. The reason in his case was a too short distance between the starter and the headders, causing the starter to overheat (I think). My buddy was convinced that the supplier of headders and the suppier of starters had done this on purpose just to be able to sell more starters...

Another things worth checking are the connectors to the starter and if any of the starter wires have been to close to the headders, causing a short cut.

Finally, I have learned that the starter solenoid from time to time givs people a hard time. Just try to knock (gently) on the small part of the starter just to see of the solenoid jumps into the correct position (it use to get stuck?)

As I already have stated - I am not an electrician. Good luck!

Hi Christer,
I tried that the other day and seemed to work, but i hit the body of the starter not the solenoid bit, but i was blaming it on heat transfer and thought it was a sticky solenoid. I'll have a look at all the possibilities mentioned. I think i read somewhere that people that have performance headers fitted, fit mini starters so heat dissapates better around the starter area, i might be wrong could be just to save weight maybe!

Cheers
Daz

The mini starters are usually put in with headers because the headers often won't fit with a normal sized starter on it. A side benefit is the starter not overheating anymore.
Also to help keep the heat where it belongs, use header pipe wrap (heat wrap tape).

Daz, I didnt know you had headers or your electrical skill level, but here is an easy way to determine if it's the starter motor thats the problem. This assumes that the circuit and battery are 'healthy' and the starter motor is at fault only, understand? Turn the headlights ON and note the brightness, get in the car and attempt to start, do the lights get dim immediately and noticably or go out completely? If so, the starter is at fault. I would then opt to buy a mini starter or get a heat shield and fabricate one for your application or buy the wrap up thermo sleeve which can be wrapped without fabrication. The smaller Nippendenso is the way to go, there draw less current than the original Chrysler starters and are more resilient to heat then they are. In series simply means part of the circuit where current stays the same in all parts of the circuit. Across the circuit is just measuring at that point, in between the leads, or the load itself but you already performed that test.. I have the exact same setup in my truck! A Nip mini starter with Hooker Headers on my 360. It butts up against the starter tight. No problems in 9+ years. The original starter lasted 6 weeks. I got mine from mancini for around 140.00 bucks.

airfuelEddie wrote:Daz, I didnt know you had headers or your electrical skill level, but here is an easy way to determine if it's the starter motor thats the problem. This assumes that the circuit and battery are 'healthy' and the starter motor is at fault only, understand? Turn the headlights ON and note the brightness, get in the car and attempt to start, do the lights get dim immediately and noticably or go out completely? If so, the starter is at fault. I would then opt to buy a mini starter or get a heat shield and fabricate one for your application or buy the wrap up thermo sleeve which can be wrapped without fabrication. The smaller Nippendenso is the way to go, there draw less current than the original Chrysler starters and are more resilient to heat then they are. In series simply means part of the circuit where current stays the same in all parts of the circuit. Across the circuit is just measuring at that point, in between the leads, or the load itself but you already performed that test.. I have the exact same setup in my truck! A Nip mini starter with Hooker Headers on my 360. It butts up against the starter tight. No problems in 9+ years. The original starter lasted 6 weeks. I got mine from mancini for around 140.00 bucks.

Hi again,
Ok firstly thanks Eddie n Fal for your info!

Ok, here we go, i managed to take the starter off tonight, don't know how i got it out but i did, you were totally right about the headers, didn't think it was going to come out, had to force it between the torsion bar, tie rod and header LOL,. Anyway its out, and first problem noticed that maybe related was the positive post going into the solenoid was slack!
Then i done the test shorting out the starter, to my horror it worked, so i done a repeatability test and it kept working, so i thought the problem was elsewhere. Not totally convinced, i done more tests, then all of a sudden nothing, then more tests, and again nothing. So the problem was intermittent. This was exactly the symptoms, when i ran the car, initially started, got to full temp then would work, then eventually total failure, well to percentage it i would of said 95% didn't work 5% worked.

Now i have a dilema i found a place that rebuilds starters don't know what it will cost as they will need to diagnose the amount of problem, but now i'm thinking of the suggested mini starter route. My question is, is there anywhere in the UK that supplies these NipponDenso starters, as it may pay me to get one rather than spend on the old unit and struggle to get it back in?

Could you tell me what the silver square unit i'm holding is for in the pic below? I think the other item is the starter relay, is this correct, please see pics below, thanks




Cheers Daz

Geof Hauser (Hauser Racing) for the starter.

No idea what you have in your hand.

dave-r wrote:Geof Hauser (Hauser Racing) for the starter.

No idea what you have in your hand.

Cheers Dave,

Therefore if you don't know then it could be something to do with the airhorns?, i'll trace wires!

Hi All,
Just an update, thanks to Dave, ordered mini starter from Hauser racing yesterday, got it today and fitted it tonight, didn't even finish turning the key and she kicked into life, what a result

So thanks to all that helped me, overcome this problem

Cheers

Daz

Wow, quick service there. Good to hear you got things worked out.

I remember many a time bump startin my old girl. Them cheap auto parts starters would last about two years at best.

Jon wrote: I remember many a time bump startin my old girl.

I do that every sunday morning before she gets up and makes my breakfast.