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Ingition Suggestions
by spitfire9137 » 19 Oct 2004 14:53
I cant figure out whether i want to go with a complete MSD setup or just get the MP Electronic Conversion kit. Engine is going to be a 496 440 stroker, evenutally to have fuel injection on it. Might see the strip every once in awhile but other than it will just be a hot street engine.
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by dave-r » 19 Oct 2004 17:02
The Chrysler ignition is a BIG upgrade from points but an aftermarket Capacitive Discharge Unit (MSD etc) used alongside it will improve things even more.
I used to have issues with the MSD stuff years ago (it was not much more than a multiple spark unit then) although they have since brought out much better products. However because they were not as good back then (I am talking 15 years here) I bought a Jacobs unit instead.
Now when I fitted that Jacobs unit on my Challenger (along with a Chrysler electronic ignition that drives it) I found it addded much more torque and improved my mileage by a measurable amount. That unit has been on the car for 15 years now and has never let me down although if it did you just throw a switch and you run on the standard chrysler ignition.
It was not cheap of course but boy it never fails to impress me. Like when I was at the EuroNats last time. I had someone crank the engine while I did a compression test. I had removed the coil HT lead and spark plugs.
However when cranked I heard a 'crackling' noise and when I looked at the coil there were these bright electric arcs about an inch or more long arcing from the centre terminal to the casing and metal work. Looked like something from frankensten's lab.
This thing will just put HUGE amounts of power into the system to get it to fire. But ONLY as much as it needs so it never uses too much power. It senses when combustion has taken place so it knows to stop firing that plug.
So check out Jacobs as an option before deciding what to use.
I used to have issues with the MSD stuff years ago (it was not much more than a multiple spark unit then) although they have since brought out much better products. However because they were not as good back then (I am talking 15 years here) I bought a Jacobs unit instead.
Now when I fitted that Jacobs unit on my Challenger (along with a Chrysler electronic ignition that drives it) I found it addded much more torque and improved my mileage by a measurable amount. That unit has been on the car for 15 years now and has never let me down although if it did you just throw a switch and you run on the standard chrysler ignition.
It was not cheap of course but boy it never fails to impress me. Like when I was at the EuroNats last time. I had someone crank the engine while I did a compression test. I had removed the coil HT lead and spark plugs.
However when cranked I heard a 'crackling' noise and when I looked at the coil there were these bright electric arcs about an inch or more long arcing from the centre terminal to the casing and metal work. Looked like something from frankensten's lab.
This thing will just put HUGE amounts of power into the system to get it to fire. But ONLY as much as it needs so it never uses too much power. It senses when combustion has taken place so it knows to stop firing that plug.
So check out Jacobs as an option before deciding what to use.
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dave-r - Grumpy Old Man
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by spitfire9137 » 19 Oct 2004 19:17
So you put 2 ignition setups in your car?
If jacobs got bought by Mr.Gasket that means that the Accel ignition componets would probably be close to your setup, if of course they still make that setup.
If jacobs got bought by Mr.Gasket that means that the Accel ignition componets would probably be close to your setup, if of course they still make that setup.
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by dave-r » 20 Oct 2004 8:27
You still need to change to the MP electronic distributor no matter what system you use. Points suck. 
The new versions of the MP dizzy have the same adjustable internals as the expensive billet version you can get. But I just read in Mopar Action the other day that they needed to dial a lot of mechanical timing OUT of the dizzy to get enough advance at idle so you need the tuning kit too.
The 'orange box' that comes with the MP electronic ignition conversion kit is NOT a spark amplifier as most people seem to think. It is just a solid state switch that acts like the points in the original dizzy. Signals from the magnetic pick-up in the dizzy tell it when to open and close.
You DO get an increase in spark power with the orange box but that is because it works faster and current has longer to build up in the coil (points duration) so you get a bigger whack from the coil.
It is like this.
The points close. Electricity flows through the coil primary. A magnetic field slowly builds up. The longer the points are closed the more time the field has to grow. Then the points open and the electricity is cut off. The magnetic field then collapses suddenly. That causes a big voltage in the secondary coil and that discharges at the spark plug.
The more time the magnetic field has to grow the bigger the spark you will get. The faster the points open the bigger the spark you get. So you see doing it electronically has big advantages over a mechanical set of points.
My old system works alongside the stock system. But instead of the orange box connecting to the coil it connects (via a switch) to the Jacobs unit. The Jacobs unit then connects to the coil.
So my system looks stock. The Jacobs box is tucked in next to the headlights behind the grille. And if the Jacobs broke down for some reason I just flick a switch and I am running on the stock ignition again.
I had a quick look at the Accel systems last night but they don't seem to be like the Jacobs stuff. I will look again today and see if I can find any technical info but I would lean toward the MSD systems at the moment if I were you.
The new versions of the MP dizzy have the same adjustable internals as the expensive billet version you can get. But I just read in Mopar Action the other day that they needed to dial a lot of mechanical timing OUT of the dizzy to get enough advance at idle so you need the tuning kit too.
The 'orange box' that comes with the MP electronic ignition conversion kit is NOT a spark amplifier as most people seem to think. It is just a solid state switch that acts like the points in the original dizzy. Signals from the magnetic pick-up in the dizzy tell it when to open and close.
You DO get an increase in spark power with the orange box but that is because it works faster and current has longer to build up in the coil (points duration) so you get a bigger whack from the coil.
It is like this.
The points close. Electricity flows through the coil primary. A magnetic field slowly builds up. The longer the points are closed the more time the field has to grow. Then the points open and the electricity is cut off. The magnetic field then collapses suddenly. That causes a big voltage in the secondary coil and that discharges at the spark plug.
The more time the magnetic field has to grow the bigger the spark you will get. The faster the points open the bigger the spark you get. So you see doing it electronically has big advantages over a mechanical set of points.
My old system works alongside the stock system. But instead of the orange box connecting to the coil it connects (via a switch) to the Jacobs unit. The Jacobs unit then connects to the coil.
So my system looks stock. The Jacobs box is tucked in next to the headlights behind the grille. And if the Jacobs broke down for some reason I just flick a switch and I am running on the stock ignition again.
I had a quick look at the Accel systems last night but they don't seem to be like the Jacobs stuff. I will look again today and see if I can find any technical info but I would lean toward the MSD systems at the moment if I were you.
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dave-r - Grumpy Old Man
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10 posts
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