The Dodge Challenger Message Board

I wonder where the problem is if i only get 8volts on my ignition to starter wire?

Same on the starter relay. (Even thes same on a new relay).

It says fuseable link on the wire going thrue the torped wall, but i don't find any fuse at all.

I thought i should check the whole contacts but did'nt get that far yesterday.

Main feed is 12volt as supposed to.

I only get a "click-click" when trying to crank....


I am on my way to buy a mini starter....

Anyone tried changing the oil pan gasket at the same time as changing the engine mounts?

Is it possible if i lift the engine a little bit? I got told it's a no can do...

http://www.madelectrical.com/electrical ... uges.shtml

One wire in the bulkhead connector carries all the current to the electrics. Make sure it is good or do the mod in the link.

You might need a new ignition switch. My money is on that being the cause. But you have a bad connection somewhere for sure.

dave-r wrote:http://www.madelectrical.com/electricaltech/amp-gauges.shtml

One wire in the bulkhead connector carries all the current to the electrics. Make sure it is good or do the mod in the link.

You might need a new ignition switch. My money is on that being the cause. But you have a bad connection somewhere for sure.

Thanks Dave!

I have a really slow memory.

I remember getting rid of the mopar alternator for a new bosch, on the Challenger. I think i run only one big cable for the battery and then i have a loss of memory, but pherhaps i did'nt use that old amp gauge at all.

It was a good link.

But should i just bypass the amp gauge for a start, that is from inside, since there is wires to the ignition aswell right? I cannot bypass from the engine side of the connectors...

I also have a feeling it is something including the ignition.

I will most definitely check the connectors.

I still think i have a faulty starter anyhow. Cause it would'nt crank with 12v either.

I make a try though my back hurts.

Looks very bad.

One question for start, the grey wire, that is supposed to go where?

'Cause it's loose like you can see...

And now i remember why i converted the system on the Challenger... Got damn so thin feeding cable from alternator!

I remember running the feeding with a thick cable directly to the battery. What my slow memory don't recall, is however i need any light or anything to start the alternator?

I will recall people telling me i have to have something pulling power to get the alternator starting to charge the battery, like a bulb or anything. But from what i recall it worked just fine with one wire from the bosch alternator and to the battery... Dave? Suggestions? What is that grey cable?

Is the grey oil pressure(?)

I can promise it's not comfy underneith, inside the coupé
I can just barely see the contacts

Yeah grey is oil pressure sender, grey with black tracer is tach
That looks proper melted, too much resistance caused that, try looking at the large flat terminal block under the steering column for the ign switch, bet that's got hot too.

The bulk head most far down
Second cable from right (standing in front of the car)

The brown... From starter relay, both tranny ground, ignition and a cable to the starter goes together to the brown cable... Is the brown from the ignition switch?

Think you need a wiring diagram.

(I can start in all gears- the seller already told me so. BUT... Untill i get the contact to the tranny to work properly, is it really supposed to be + from tranny? In that case i guess this work. But i've read a scetch on the web, somebody wrote that from tranny to relay there are ground signal.... So, what's true?)

Do you get this? Blue, green and black... All those goes in to that same brown in the bulkhead.

They split up and goes for blue - same as for to starter...(?) Green as for supposed to go from ignition(?) and "black" dirty as supposed to come from tranny...

Is it supposed to be 12v from tranny or a ground?

Please, any helpful guidence appreachiated!

As I recall the brown from the starter relay goes to the starter solenoid.
The brown/yellow wire from the relay goes to the reverse lamp switch. Check out the wiring diag at the top of the Electrical section that Chuck posted, covers every Mopar vehicle

But it's supposed to be 12v from tranny to starter relay?

I will check that but i am writing from my phone...

Jimiboy wrote:But it's supposed to be 12v from tranny to starter relay?.

Yeah it is.
Have you got 12v anywhere except batt terminal on the starter relay?

I've only got 8v

That's how this little work began...

I've bought myself a Charger with no gearbox (not started)... Got myself a new tranny and it ran very bad and did change gears totally wrong.... Fixed that and the next day i only heard "click - click" and got my self 8v only...
I've only ran it once after putting up the tranny... and it was problems starting it warm, had to get start help.

Next day no problems cold but got smoke coming from the feeding cable to starter... It was smoking hot!

So the next day i felt that the connection down at the starter was loose, big time...
And the cable had bad connection. I thought i found the problem so i made myself a new connection and maked a bigger ground from chassie to engine and battery... While in the car, excited to fire it up, i've only got the click! I had myself a new starter relay laying around since the Challenger time. I switched that just because... And maked sure it was tight to ground. Still "click"

I did'nt reach to give the starter some punches, like sometimes can help an old starter you know. But then i discovered i only had 8v from ignition... And everywhere but on the battery terminal on the relay.


I am now up to replace the connectors and weld new cables instead. I start to remember this same job was needed on my old Challenger... That time i replaced the little metal connectors inside the bulkhead. But this time i will do it easy as in the link Dave gave. That feels much more solid!

I will run a separate + from alternator and to + on relay or pherhaps to the battery....

I hope it works!

I don't look forward to a starter replace. I got hedman headders all around it. Looks like it is a tricky job!

Adrian Worman wrote:

Jimiboy wrote:But it's supposed to be 12v from tranny to starter relay?.

Yeah it is.
Have you got 12v anywhere except batt terminal on the starter relay?

As is for now

I guess i am going to get my self 12v on all terminals as wired now...

Take a look on my pic again, pherhaps you understand what i mean

Jimiboy wrote:Is the brown from the ignition switch?

Yes, it seems like that (If I interpret the circuit diagrams below correctly.)

http://www.mopar70.com/html/1970elschema1.php

http://www.mopar70.com/html/1970elschema2.php

christer wrote:

Jimiboy wrote:Is the brown from the ignition switch?

Yes, it seems like that (If I interpret the circuit diagrams below correctly.)

http://www.mopar70.com/html/1970elschema1.php

http://www.mopar70.com/html/1970elschema2.php

Thanks

I hope Charger has the same thought...
I want to understand my starter relay.
The ignition power inside the car for an example. That goes to stereo and lights etc.
Where does that come from? Is that from the ignition key? If so, is there +12v feed from... Where?
If it is one of those terminals on the starter relay, i will not get ignition on/off power with the cables routed like that(?)

All 3 terminals on to that brown wire...

No, now i was tired in my brain.

It's the black from alternator that splices up from amp meter that goes to ignition and lights... And then out to starter relay....(?)

That black wire from the alt goes to the bulkhead conn block where it feeds both bus bars, one has a thick pink wire that goes to light switch, wipers, etc, a red wire goes to ign switch.

Now i've done all this work and it still clicks! Frustrating... Has to wait for somebody to turn the key so i can see if i at least got me 12volts...


If not!? Then what the F!?


If, then i suppose it's the starter...

Btw, i haven't found the fuses, pherhaps i should make a better check after those!

The fuses should be on the other side of the conn block under the dash.

Today i got 10,7 volts on the terminals when my girlfriend turns the key. Are you sure it is supposed to be 12v from transmission? I am reading ground from tranny on some pictures on the web.


12v of course from battery


But maximum 10,7v from ign

Same 10,7v from tranny and to solenoid

Because all those 3 (ignition, solenoid, transmission) are connected together to the brown ignition wire!

But, however, even when putting a direct power of 12v to either the starter relay solenoid terminal or down at the starter, it still only clicks. I guess the starter is dead. BUT should'nt it be 12v at the ignition?

Now i got told from this other guy, that from the transmission there is supposed to go ground signal to start the car... And another tells different!

What the hell man!?

I got 12 something volts on battery, exact same on alternator and exact same on starter relay.

0volt when ign in off

When ignition is kept in start position i got 10,7 volt on transmission terminal, exact same on solenoid terminal, exact same on ignition terminal.


My brown wire (ignition, yes?) is spliced up in 3

One goes to transmission terminal, one to ignition terminal and a third goes to the same terminal as for the solenoid terminal... Is that at all correct? Should i ground the transmission terminal?

Should i unhook that ignition signal going to the solenoid terminal?

The backup lamp has 12v going to it to feed the switch and the reverse lamps.
The wire from the starter relay is just a ground.
Have you checked the voltage at the connector block? If you have 12v comin out of there then there's a fault in the wiring to the relay. But I suspect you'll find that the conn block is causing a lot of resistance, it's overheated already due to exactly that.
The only area where you should get less than 12v in the ign/start circuit is after the ballast resistor to the coil.

Adrian Worman wrote:The backup lamp has 12v going to it to feed the switch and the reverse lamps.
The wire from the starter relay is just a ground.
Have you checked the voltage at the connector block? If you have 12v comin out of there then there's a fault in the wiring to the relay. But I suspect you'll find that the conn block is causing a lot of resistance, it's overheated already due to exactly that.
The only area where you should get less than 12v in the ign/start circuit is after the ballast resistor to the coil.

Now, is it supposed to be ground on starter relay / transmission terminal? The terminal on the starter relay....

+ or -

?

I read that it actually says "G" on that terminal for transmission cable... I made a solid ground wire to that terminal "G" on starter relay. Disconnected the spliced up ignition cable from it.

Beeps between ground on battery and the "G"... so i am sure it's solid ground. When ignition is in "off" even the other terminals beeps. Is that correct? (The battery terminal is not included). I mean that it beeps between ground on battery and solenoid terminal, beeps between ground on battery and on ignition terminal, besides the beep from ground on battery and the "G" terminal....

Is it meant to be a separate wire to the solenoid terminal? I mean... There is a special ignition terminal, should that cable be spliced up and be connected to both ignition and the solenoid terminal? Or should i remove it from the solenoid terminal?

With ground on G terminal instead of + power, i only got one click, then no more click at all even though i tried the key one or two times more.

Then i see smoke coming from the starter.

"ahem"

So...

How the hell has this car been able to start if it's been this wrong wired(?)

I will loosen the cables from the starter and see if i then get 12,5v from the ignition.

Pherhaps it could be some sort of short in the starter (obviously, since it's behaviour and the smoke) that brings down the volts??

It sounds like a world of pain
I would download and print off an engine harness wiring diagram, give yourself plenty of time and unplug the harness at the conn block and use your circuit tester to check for continuity and voltage thru every wire and check voltage at the conn block. Everything should be batt voltage.
It will be easier to strip it and start again, you don't want to damage any components, like the starter, relay, etc.
Electrical testing and fault finding is very frustrating but you have to go thru everything methodically, no matter how boring or time consign before you can eliminate the cause. That means starting from scratch I'm afraid, no easy answer there

Adrian Worman wrote:It sounds like a world of pain
I would download and print off an engine harness wiring diagram, give yourself plenty of time and unplug the harness at the conn block and use your circuit tester to check for continuity and voltage thru every wire and check voltage at the conn block. Everything should be batt voltage.
It will be easier to strip it and start again, you don't want to damage any components, like the starter, relay, etc.
Electrical testing and fault finding is very frustrating but you have to go thru everything methodically, no matter how boring or time consign before you can eliminate the cause. That means starting from scratch I'm afraid, no easy answer there

Today i was told volts is accourding to how the "breaker lace"(?) inside the distributor stand... The volt changes with the gap... Sorry for me don't finding the english i need.
But this is when you crank the engine, i guess he means the ballast resistor lowering the volts.

Pherhaps i got me 12v when i can be able to spin the new starter.

Actually, it is satisfying to make new wiring. Always nice knowing you make an approvement.

But it's of course frustrating at the same time.


I have made an order of a new mini starter today.

It'll arrives next Monday!

But i have maked a ground to the relay instead of ignition power.

The ballast resistor reduces the voltage to the coil when the engine is running. Not when starting and it has nothing to do with the starter anyway. The starter gets connected directly to the battery when cranking.

I never got any answer on this one:

Is it supposed to go a feed to the solenoid terminal, from the ignition?

As for now i am waiting for the new starter...

I grounded the terminal on the relay that had ignition feed.

Should i also remove the ignition feed from the solenoid terminal?

Feels like i only should have ignition feed on one terminal only, the ignition terminal...


The one in the middle goes to starter solenoid. But should it really be feeded with power from ignition as on picture?

I feel like only one terminal should be feeded with ignition power, the vertical one in the bottom..

Can anybody check their relay and see if you got full battery power from ignition? (When cranking)

I hope the starter will solve this for me. If it is burned, pherhaps i get lower voltage on the ignition because of a short in the starter(?)