The Dodge Challenger Message Board

Two days ago i finally received Gear Vendors under/overdrive for my 727. When we strted installation i though it is a good moment to to change oil and filter in 727. That was working good. How supprised i was when i found metal scrap in the pan . Now when the season starts i am afraid that 727 is going to fail any moment. I used strong magnet to check this scrap and some that look like brass or copper is magnetic and some white is not.
Whta do you think is it time to rebuilt or to wait for complete failure ? Are there any other elements that can be broken if i continue to use it, or what is broken is broken ?

This transmission was only two seasons old, i use the car on a street with occasional drag racing 3-4 times a year, The engine is 318 small block but rather modified,i am reachin 14.1 ET, with 3.7 gears in it. Now i have new center section with 4.1 gears and GV unit. Is it not little to early for trans problems ? What can be done to avoid trans rebuild every two seasons.

I was thinking about Huges perfomance Premium Overhaul Race
Kit Box with Kolene® Steels is it a good choice ? What else i should change in the trans to make it stronger so it will resist burnouts and race shifts. I read positive opinion about B&M rebuilt kits but on other hand everybody complain about their torque converters ( i have Holeshot 2400 stall) should i change it too ?

Any recomendation for a complete transmission, i am so desperate that i want to buy one and keep it as a spare one, and in the meantime rebuilt old one.

I will appreciete all your suggestion, thanks in advance.

have you read my long thread about fitting the GV overdrive and also the follow-up thread about the problems I later had?

Check the overrunning clutch to see if it is wearing into the back of the case.

What looks like brass but is magnetic could be steel from the clutch. It will turn gold and blue depending on how hot it got as it was sheared off. The non-magnetic stuff could be from the back of the case.

Yes i read your tread, it seems i am facing similar problems, do you have any experience with huges performance rebuild kits ? where to get good performance parts for 727 and what is the most important to improve ?

I just used a B&M kit to rebuild the trans. Mainly because they come with clear instructions. Although it does help a lot if you also refer to the workshop manual at the same time.

The A-727 book by Carl H. Munroe is good. And if you want lightweight race parts in their visit the TCS website www.tcsproducts.com

Thanks Dave, book ordered from Amazon ! We will see. Just did a test drive with new center s3ection and 4.1 gears - finally annoing noide is gone ! I am still waiting for any suggection from you guys about parts for mt 727 -what to change and what to choose.

Just build it carefully with the stock parts. Some of the parts can be modified for better oiling and if put together well (and used correctly) the trans should live a long time.

Making sure you use the trans correctly in the burnout is probably the most important thing. But correct clearences are pretty important too.

The overrunning clutch depends greatly on the above two.

Here is another useful article to read.
http://www.allpar.com/mopar/transmissio ... -hand.html

Dave has made mention of the rear sprag(overrun clutch) at the rear of the case, and he is pointing you in the right direction. When the unit is apart, check the planetaries over for wear while you're at it.
When you rebuild the trans, replace all bushings and washers in the unit. Some of the discoloured material may be a washer that has come apart.
While you're at it, replace both the front and the rear band, as they may be contaminated with the junk you found. The converter will also have to be looked at, as any contamination you found will also be in the converter, and because it's a sealed unit, it will have to be repaired or replaced.
As far as a transmission repair kit goes, ALL kits have parts in them from one of few makers of friction plates, steel plates and gasket sets. Friction plates will come from Borg Warner, Raybestos (typically used by Chrysler), Alto. and maybe some offshore supplier. Gasket sets will come from Toledo, Precision, or Trans-Tec. NONE of the distributors (B&M, TCI, ETC.)make any of those parts from what I've seen inside their kits.. They purchase the parts from one of the the manufacturers and then package them up in their own boxes.. If you get a kit with the kolene steels, make sure they supply you with the correct friction plates to go with the kolene steels. For a high performance vehicle, kolene steels are a good investment.
When it comes to shift kits, each of the kit makers have their own thoughts. One thing I observed in the year I worked in the transmission parts supply business, TRANSGO was the shift kit of choice for the industry. Gil Younger (owner of Transgo) was the man who first came up with the shift kit, both for perfomance vehicles and for normal vehicles.
The choice is yours, as there are different opinions on shift kits. If it was me, I'd go with part number TF2 for a good performance kit, or part number TF3 if you want a manual valve body.
Remember, when building a transmission, cleanliness is next to Godness.

transman

dave-r wrote:I just used a B&M kit to rebuild the trans. Mainly because they come with clear instructions.

Not anymore. I just rebuilt a transmission with two friends yesterday (including one guy who's already done half a dozen). The instructions with the B&M kit were unclear, to say the least. It would have been better to sit down and read them ahead of time, highlighting the parts we would do, identifying the parts in the kit and tagging them (some steel seal rings were missing from the kit, so we kept the old ones which were not too bad, lots of parts were useless (other years or 904 I suspect) but were not clearly identified.
My friend says the instructions used to be a lot better years ago.
Not to mention the "transmission pan drain plug kit" included is now a simple NPT plug!

Oh, and the rear band was totally different from the one in the trans, we had to reuse the old one (thankfully, it was still in pretty good shape, apparently the trans had already been rebuilt and already had a bolt-in sprague [which was not looking that good]).
That was a B&M 10229 Trankit, and the trans is a 1970 model, so it should have been spot on.

Although it does help a lot if you also refer to the workshop manual at the same time.

The Service Manual was a great help when we got to reassembling he valve body (B&M instructions are a little bit of all years and total crap, the Munro book is excellent too.

I'll be rebuilding my spare 727 soon, and I will not be using this B&M kit.

Depending on the new clutches you get (same or thinner), you may end up with more clutch discs in the trans than before (we removed 4 and installed 5 in the rear drum and had to use an axtra steel disc for clearance), so you will also need more steel discs than supplied in the kit. There, we also reused a couple old steel discs that were good (steel discs from the front dum were blue).

Thanks Fbernard ! That is very optimistic. So what kit to use Does anybody have some experience with huges performance kits ?

They used to just do kits for chevys.

Tell me what you are going to do with the car. Drag race? Street driven, but drive with a purpose? Street driven, but not hitting the throttle too hard?
Any kit can be put together for your purpose, but your kit supplier needs to know what your are doing with the car. A kit for a drag race or driven hard vehicle will be different than one for a vehicle that is just driven normally

By the way, on a 904 transmission, there are 3 different rear bands that can be in the transmission. When ordering a rear band for the 904, give the supplier all the information you can, even if it means taking the unit apart and measuring this band.

transman

Thanks Transman, The car is a street car but i do drag racing 4-5 times a year, i also go with that car on lap races and push it rather hard, burnouts and power slides is what i like the most i already broke all the stock components including diffs lsd, stock 904 and rebuilt 727 so i would rtaher build sth strong especially that i plan to change the engine in a close future aiming to reach around 500 - 550 Hp with a stroked SB. Any suggestions will be highly appreciated.

I will make a couple of phone calls for you and see what I can find for you.
There are lots of parts to make the transmission strong, but they are not inexpensive.

transman

True Mopar life is not inexpensive too, especially in Europe I am looking forward to receive your feedback.