The Dodge Challenger Message Board

Posted: **15 Aug 2009 20:41**

hi guys,
i have an oil leak coming out of the rear cone style seal on the back of my 4 speed 833 trans.
it is running off the drive shaft and going on the exhaust :frown:

causing a STINKY gear oil smell and a tiny puddle when i park.
anyways does anyone know a mopar part# to get this seal ordered or does an aftermarket auto shop have them?
mine has a large rubber cone style rear seal.
any help appreciated. :thumbsup:

Posted: **15 Aug 2009 20:50**

If there is a bush in there like the autos have you had better check that is not badly worn and causing the leak.

Posted: **15 Aug 2009 21:05**

dave-r wrote:If there is a bush in there like the autos have you had better check that is not badly worn and causing the leak.

dave what do you mean when you say "bush"
i am assuming that there may be a metal bushing sleeve inside?

Posted: **16 Aug 2009 0:09**

Yeah, Daves right, there's a mainshaft Yoke Bushing with an oil groove and the Yoke seal. You might just replace the seal and see if that fixes it. Its not that difficult to pull the seal and get a driver/Cup to hammer the new one in. www.brewersperformance.com should fix you up. Or you can also use www.passonperformance.com Ive used both companies with excellent results on my 18 Spline Box. While you are back there and the driveshaft is pulled out you are gonna lose some fluid. With the seal removed you can feel the bushing and if grooved you might want to replace that too. You'll need a Mac, Snap-On Miller Tool ect driver/installer to remove and replace that bushing. If you do do it yourself make sure the oil groove is lined up with the groove in the housing slot, this provides lubrication for the bushing/driveshaft yoke, I try and 'mark' the driveshaft before removing it to preserve the U-Joint phase, but sometimes I ferget. :lol:

Posted: **16 Aug 2009 1:57**

thank you guys i will check it out soon.
eddie i am guessing my 833 trans is an 18 spline hemi 4 speed.
as it is numbers matching to V.I.N. and the 18 spline did come original on all 440 6 pack cars?
am i right? :roll:

Posted: **16 Aug 2009 14:32**

rtse4406pack wrote:thank you guys i will check it out soon.
eddie i am guessing my 833 trans is an 18 spline hemi 4 speed.
as it is numbers matching to V.I.N. and the 18 spline did come original on all 440 6 pack cars?
am i right?

Yep!

Posted: **16 Aug 2009 15:22**

I know you want to keep your beautiful N-96, SE R/T as original as you can Danny and this is very commendable. But, take a look at the alloyed 18 splined 'Overdrive' 4 speed Passon transmission with 9310 root gear material,(very Strong), revised ratio for more top speed, is much lighter than the cast iron 18 splined box we have on our R/T's. I would love to have one! I think it reduces the RPM's at 60 MPH by 21% or so. I had my R/T out yesterday and drove it for 48 miles. At 60 MPH I am turning 2500 RPM's with 3.54 final gear and 15" Ralleys :wink:

Posted: **16 Aug 2009 16:30**

cool eddie,
i wont change the tranny,i dont mind the stock one.

you think you have it bad on the high way :lol:

i do 3000 rpm at 60 mph with every car passsing me as i am always in the slow lane,you should see the dirty looks i get because they think im wierd driving so slow on the high way with the car i have but with that Dana 9+3/4 rear end with 4.10 gear i really have no choice.
love the 4.10 gear on the local streets though :lol2:

i only go to local near by cruises so no biggie having the 4.10 gear.
if there is a show an hour or more away i just trailer the car. :thumbsup:

Posted: **16 Aug 2009 17:39**

rtse4406pack wrote:cool eddie,
i wont change the tranny,i dont mind the stock one.

you think you have it bad on the high way
i do 3000 rpm at 60 mph with every car passsing me as i am always in the slow lane,you should see the dirty looks i get because they think im wierd driving so slow on the high way with the car i have but with that Dana 9+3/4 rear end with 4.10 gear i really have no choice.
love the 4.10 gear on the local streets though
i only go to local near by cruises so no biggie having the 4.10 gear.
if there is a show an hour or more away i just trailer the car.

Thats why I posted it! I used to run a 4.10 on the street back a long time ago. Sure it was a blast on the street! Highways were NO fun at all! :lol:

Posted: **17 Aug 2009 21:21**

hey guys,
were does the bushing go pictured below with the output shaft seal.
it is pretty obviuos were the rubber cone seal goes but the metal bushing?
i will being doing this for the first time and justed wanted to have an idea were this metal bushing goes.
any tips before i start would be much appreciated.

Posted: **17 Aug 2009 23:35**

The Mainshaft Yoke bushing goes inside the rear of the tailshaft case. You'll see it when you pull the seal off. Install the new bushing by lining it up with the 'lubrication groove' inside the case housing and hammering it in there. The bushing supports the driveshaft yoke that slides into the rear of the tranny case and onto the splined mainshaft. You might want to drain your tranny first in an oil pan/collector, because when you pull the driveshaft off out of the way, and remove the seal the fluid will come out and you'll need to top it off. I use Passon's Own manual tranny fluid but auto tranny fluid and gear oil mixed 50/50 produces good results with some members here. Make sure the yoke surface isnt pitted or grooved/scarred corrosion ect,,if it is polish it out with emery cloth 400 grit followed by 600 and just make sure it's decently smooth, and you'll be fine.

Posted: **18 Aug 2009 0:18**

airfuelEddie wrote:The Mainshaft Yoke bushing goes inside the rear of the tailshaft case. You'll see it when you pull the seal off. Install the new bushing by lining it up with the 'lubrication groove' inside the case housing and hammering it in there. The bushing supports the driveshaft yoke that slides into the rear of the tranny case and onto the splined mainshaft. You might want to drain your tranny first in an oil pan/collector, because when you pull the driveshaft off out of the way, and remove the seal the fluid will come out and you'll need to top it off. I use Passon's Own manual tranny fluid but auto tranny fluid and gear oil mixed 50/50 produces good results with some members here. Make sure the yoke surface isnt pitted or grooved/scarred corrosion ect,,if it is polish it out with emery cloth 400 grit followed by 600 and just make sure it's decently smooth, and you'll be fine.

thank you eddie for the tips,one last question,
should i buy a babbit or bronze tailshaft bushing and is it necessery to put a new bushing in?

Posted: **18 Aug 2009 3:26**

One thing to keep in mind, when replacing a bushing IT MUST GO IN STRAIGHT. When I worked in the transmission business, I saw a lot of people putting bushings in with the wrong tool. Usually they were not in correctly.
When you have your bushing, do one of two things. Either have a transmission shop install the bushing for you, or find a tool rental store that rents such a tool. The outfit I used to work for has a website www.tcsproducts.com . There you find a link for misc. tools and there is a picture of a bushing driver set. Not that you need a bushing driver set, but you can get an idea of what they are.

The seal and bushing by the way I think are the same as the rear extension housing bushing on a TF727 automatic transmission. Take your seal and bushing to a transmission shop and make a comparison. The Chrysler dealer will also probably have them in stock. Nothing special, just a babbit bushing and a normal seal. :thumbsup:

transman

Posted: **18 Aug 2009 13:40**

rtse4406pack wrote:
airfuelEddie wrote:The Mainshaft Yoke bushing goes inside the rear of the tailshaft case. You'll see it when you pull the seal off. Install the new bushing by lining it up with the 'lubrication groove' inside the case housing and hammering it in there. The bushing supports the driveshaft yoke that slides into the rear of the tranny case and onto the splined mainshaft. You might want to drain your tranny first in an oil pan/collector, because when you pull the driveshaft off out of the way, and remove the seal the fluid will come out and you'll need to top it off. I use Passon's Own manual tranny fluid but auto tranny fluid and gear oil mixed 50/50 produces good results with some members here. Make sure the yoke surface isnt pitted or grooved/scarred corrosion ect,,if it is polish it out with emery cloth 400 grit followed by 600 and just make sure it's decently smooth, and you'll be fine.
If it were me, I would replace the oil seal and see if the bushings is 'grooved' scarred' or 'worn' if it looks fine, and most likely is,,then I would just replace the oil seal, depends also on how many miles are on the drivetrain. Good tip Transman! Yeah, get the right tool,,as I said Mac Tools,, Snap-On, Sears,, any of the good tool jobbers will have the right bushing drivers, they even make the plastic/polymer ones that do a great job of keeping the bushing straight, tap in gently and make sure it's straight as transman says, once it 'seats' in straight and true hammer away. As long as the bushing is softer than the steel in the yoke it will provide years of service, it's lubricated with gear box oil, just make sure you line up the oil groove with the hole in the bushing if you decide to replace that too. Good Luck

thank you eddie for the tips,one last question,
should i buy a babbit or bronze tailshaft bushing and is it necessery to put a new bushing in?

Posted: **18 Aug 2009 14:53**

thank you transman and eddie,
you guys really made me understand on what to do.
boy i went around locally getting prices for the seal and bushing,what a rip off here in canada. both will cost me about $50.
i am going to order on line with brewers performance,seal $7.95 and bushing $8.95. even with shipping costs its much cheaper. :s019:

i'll let you guys know the outcome after all the work is done.

Posted: **18 Aug 2009 15:37**

Good Luck, and removing the old bushing is harder than anything else, thats why I would check it out carefully after removing the old seal and draining the box and only remove it if you have to. The transmssion's case is alluminum and soft, the right high quality tool is necessary to expand the arbor into the old bushing and a slide hammer to remove it. Good Luck and yes, keep us posted :thumbsup:

Posted: **18 Aug 2009 22:33**

well i started to work on replacing the seal and my lord i could not believe my eyes.
someone siliconed a large washer on the back of the yolk that is attached to the shaft.
this cant be a right thing to do. there was even a hole in the center with silicone stuffed in the large washer. they used clear silicone.
is this right? isnt there supposed to be a snap in cover thats solid there?
the good news is i found the leak and dont have to replace the seal or bushing. the bad news is i have to find a cap to seal this hole up properly.
is it easy to find?

Posted: **18 Aug 2009 23:23**

If I understand this right, they used the 'cap' as a way to stop the leak? If so, I would remove the driveshaft and smear some RTV on the splines, and re-insert which is what they should of done to begin with :wink2:

Posted: **18 Aug 2009 23:49**

airfuelEddie wrote:If I understand this right, they used the 'cap' as a way to stop the leak? If so, I would remove the driveshaft and smear some RTV on the splines, and re-insert which is what they should of done to begin with

so the leak is coming through the spline teeth in that shaft but not that big hole?

Posted: **19 Aug 2009 7:30**

I have a feeling that shaft is supposed to be blanked off? I have heard of people having to weld a plate over the back when this problem comes up.

Posted: **19 Aug 2009 15:04**

Danny, the RTV that has worked well for me if you decide to put that plug back on is 'The Right Stuff' sold at Napa stores. I would remove the shaft and put a small schmear of it on the splines and re-insert along with that plug and a well placed bead of the RS on the backside of the plug. I checked on the back of mine and couldnt see one. Of course use brake cleaner and remove all the gear lube you can before applying the RTV whatever brand you choose. To be honest,,first time I've seen that plug used :thumbsup:

Posted: **19 Aug 2009 15:43**

Here's the stuff I use,,it's da bomb! :lol:

http://www.neverseezproducts.com/gasketmakers.htm I've never seen a leak when using this product,,it's bit pricey but works as advertised,,most new cars use this stuff on the OEM assembly line. Once cured it's very tough, not 'rubbery' like other RTV's and has 'gluelike' properties and is a professional appearance black/grey colour, (not bright blue or orange which shows the parts have been disassembled), it's adhesion properties can make diss-assembly difficult on thin stamped parts that are susceptible to 'bending' or deformation. On your application this isnt an issue. Hope this helps

The Dodge Challenger Message Board

4 speed hemi 833 rear seal leak?

4 speed hemi 833 rear seal leak?

Seal Leak.