The Dodge Challenger Message Board

Hey all, I had a couple questions that I could not answer on my own. I am currently building a 400 BB to drop into my '72 Challenger, and I have an A833 4 speed lying around from a '70 Cuda. I also have a huge rust hole in my firewall around the pedals, so I am going to be taking the pedals off to repair this while my engine is out. See what I'm getting at?.......

So, question time. What components will I need to get that 4 speed into my Challenger and ripping gears? Modifying the trans tunnel is not a problem. I am more in the dark about what I would need as far as a pedal assembly and clutch linkage.

Something that would make this conversion a piece of cake, if it is available, is a hydraulic clutch setup that can be used with the A833.

I am missing the big block bell housing as well......

You need a pedal assembly, can be found new at YO for example. (but I'm sure Brewers, Passon, etc also have them).
You also need a little bracket (called 4-speed bracket) that may be sold separately, I'm not sure.

You need pedal pads.
You need a tunnel patch to have the correct opening for the shifter. Kit sellers have that part (Keisler, Classic Mopar 5-speed, and others)
And the shifter itself.

As far as the clutch goes, I'm not sure there still are retrofit hydraulic bearings around (used to be but I think Keisler discontinued them for quality problems - check them out, they may have a new design).

But I've seen something on several internet sites which may actually be better (and easier to service/replace on the road than a real hydraulic bearing).
Using a standard throwout bearing, the original fork, the original (modified) fork rod, and a hydraulic slave cylinder with the proper stroke, you can keep the mechanical clutch and add hydraulic actuation.

You still need a Master cylinder and bracket (which you can find at Classic Mopar 5-speed for example, their bracket is top notch, a good bracket is need to prevent the firewall from flexing at that point).

No more Z-bar, no more trucker's left thigh.

I have a 5-speed Tremec with hydraulic clutch kit (got everything from Classic Mopar 5-speed, was converting from 4-speed), and I like the hydraulic setup a lot, although I'm not too happy about the self-setting feature of the throwout bearing.

I have 'truckers' middle thigh, with my 4-speed~! (I used Keislers new BB Bellhousing in Titanium/alluminum alloy), very strong, weighs about the same though but it's construction is twice the thickness of the standard alluminum alloy Chrysler made. McCleod Street Twin assembly including their Billet SFI flywheel. Very Happy with it.

Thanks for the info fbernard. And eddie, you have already convinced me to buy far more shiny new parts than I can afford! Your talk of titanium/aluminum bellhousings has caused my wallet to run away and hide.

The engine will go to the builder next month sometime, so I have a bit to collect my parts and get going.

Moparman1972 wrote:Thanks for the info fbernard. And eddie, you have already convinced me to buy far more shiny new parts than I can afford! Your talk of titanium/aluminum bellhousings has caused my wallet to run away and hide.

The engine will go to the builder next month sometime, so I have a bit to collect my parts and get going.

The Keisler Bell is a replacement Bellhousing that is double drilled for both 10.95 and true 11" (Hemi), clutches. You could probably use the smaller 9-10" drag racing clutches too. My old original Bell had some small casting 'flaws' in it. I didnt trust it. I kept it, as all my original R/T parts on my Challenger. I drive my cars hard&Imagine I'm a Formula-10 driver.(mini-go-carts) BTW, it only cost around $300.00 delivered Prettycheap for what you get! Fully CNC machined http://www.keislerauto.com/index.php?/k ... pline:html

I used the Quicktime steel SFI Bellhousing.
If you go that route, make sure your engine builder screws the rear oil galley plugs all the way in...or you'll have one hole to drill in the safety plate that goes behind the flywheel, flush with the block (Not that hard to drill though).

SO update: I have acquired the bigger pieces required for the conversion, such as the tunnel hump and the z-bar and clutch pedals. I also found a big block bellhousing in my barn for this transmission! It was in the backseat of my Cuda... That car will be dug out someday soon...

Looking on sites like Yearone and Paddockparts, they list a multitude of washers/clips/rods. Does anyone have a shot of the linkage from underneath? I have no idea what it looks like all together and I won't cobble it together without knowing that I'm hooking it up right. I have all sorts of pieces lying around in boxes, so maybe I'll even get lucky and have some of the linkage.

Lol doing a search, it looks like this question was asked a few times but never answered with pictures.....perhaps a sticky with pictures of transmissions/linkage setups would be helpful?

Moparman1972 wrote:SO update: I have acquired the bigger pieces required for the conversion, such as the tunnel hump and the z-bar and clutch pedals. I also found a big block bellhousing in my barn for this transmission! It was in the backseat of my Cuda... That car will be dug out someday soon...

Looking on sites like Yearone and Paddockparts, they list a multitude of washers/clips/rods. Does anyone have a shot of the linkage from underneath? I have no idea what it looks like all together and I won't cobble it together without knowing that I'm hooking it up right. I have all sorts of pieces lying around in boxes, so maybe I'll even get lucky and have some of the linkage.

Lol doing a search, it looks like this question was asked a few times but never answered with pictures.....perhaps a sticky with pictures of transmissions/linkage setups would be helpful?

Cool! Check that Bell pretty good Dylan. Mine has what I call 'fissures' in the alloy. Under load, I dont know if it will be ok or not. So I bought a double drilled Keisler for 299.00 it's double drilled for any starter or clutch you want to use. 10.5 or 10.95" 143 tooth ring gear or 130 it doesnt matter. It's constructed from a Titanium/alluminum alloy and supposedly twice as strong as the stock bell. It weighs 15 lbs. If your's is fine disregard this, just an option for ya. On the subject of linkage, my original shift rods were bent, so I bought a set from Brewers performance, Wayne Brewers place, he races S.S. and Nostalgia classes and really know's his stuff. His shift rods are Chrome-Moly steel and precision bent. I then used a McCleod Street Twin. It will hold up to 800 ft. lbs. reliably! I hate sloppy shift action! I wanted a strong well built clutch that could take a lot of abuse. It's not the cheapest setup and I now you are on a budget, but sometimes it 'pays' to play' and clutch changes arent the funnest thing to do under the car. Another thing that is vital to the street twin is clutch 'runout' make sure you check it for concentricity and a square bellhousing face before you bolt it all together. I think the runout specs should be no more than .003,,,the Keislers Bell's are guauranteed to be within .001 but you should be OK after checking, and if need be sent to a machinist to true that surface. (This is vital to ensure a decent clutch life), if it's 'off' it will eat the clutch in no time. I also would have the thrust clearance on the #3 main checked very carefully, the tighter the better, mine was .006, there HAS to be some but anymore than .010 will cause the bearing to wear at an alarming rate. The linkage small parts,(Plastic spacers, bushings,clips) can be had at Mancini Racing or Brewers Performance or any major mopar parts supplier,, I'll try and get you some pics of my underside linkage setup, but it will take a few days. Glad to hear you are using a 4-speed!!

I quoted a Tremec, but for 5,200 for a complete conversion kit, and 3,200 for just a 5 speed, I'll stick with my A833 for now.

I'm cleaning up the bellhousing tonight to inspect it. I have some portable FPI (Fluorescent Penetrant Inspection) equipment from work that will definitely find any flaws. My shift rods seem to be ok, and the shifter is nice and tight.

The linkage I did not know about was the linkage from the clutch fork to z-bar, and then back through the firewall. It isn't something normally seen in pictures, and there are a multitude of washers and clips described as being part of this linkage. I didn't want to just buy a bunch of kits without knowing first what clips/washers went there.

Thanks for the info!

I too have A-833, 18 spline beast. I was quoting the Keisler Bellhousing Only. I wish I had a tremec!! Dave may have the 'engineering' drawings, if not www.MoparAction.com might have em on their site.

Well, I found some very helpful diagrams in the Yearone catalogs that came along with my order. I know now what all the clips/washers/etc are for.

As an aside, I will be scanning some of the info from the yearone book into my computer. They have all sorts of diagrams for manual transmissions, yes, but they also have pictures of all the different seat covers used, and what year/model they were used on. I'll post it all up here when I scan it in.

That would be great thanks.