[bradburm]

Ok before I get scolded for asking questions about my Roadrunner, I apologize but you guys are so knowledgable and I can't seem to find a Roadrunner forum, anyway its all in the Mopar family.

The clutch is slipping in my 70, 383, 4 sdp RR and I am looking for suggestions for a new clutch, etc. I use the car for shows and some light travel and occasionally will get on it hard.

Looking for performance but not necessarily racing.

All suggestions are appreciated and place to acquire.

As always, thanks for the help.


Brad

[Eddie]

I really like the McCleod Street Twin. It's capable of handling over 800 Lb. Ft. Torque and way more H.P. than my 440 can ever muster. It utilizes two clutch discs for an increase in clamping load without increasing the clutch diameter. It uses a diaphragm design and doesnt require the overcentering spring as used by the O.E.M.,(The big one). It shifts easily and grabs hard. When you dump the clutch in my car it gets it now, no slip, no muss or fuss! I used the SFI Steel Flywheel from them as well, it's marketed as the Street Twin Assembly and was recommended to me by none other than Mr. Herb McCandless who also re-built my tranny back when he had his shop but was getting ready to retire. Hensley Racing has all his stuff now and they sell them there as well but you can get it cheaper elsewhere. BTW, no apology needed from me at least, that car is awesome, I wouldnt change a thing, it's got the look perfect man!

[fbernard]

The street twin is a nice clutch, and a good setup for a lighly modified engine. However, it's pretty pricey. For an engine that is close to stock, with no road race use, the Centerforce dual friction is a very nice setup. It doesn't require too much effort on the pedal. (I guess any clutch with a diaphragm pressure mechanism would be the same).
It can withstand quite a bit of abuse (it still lives behind my current engine, but I'll probably replace it with a twin clutch when it starts slipping).
It also does require the removal of the overcenter spring (or else the throwout bearing stays in contact with the diaphragm and dies promptly).

[Eddie]

I dont think he could go wrong with either Fabian.

[bradburm]

Guys,

Since I havent ever had the tranny and clutch pulled, how do I tell whether I will need a 10.4" clutch and throw out bearing or and 11"

Is there something in the Vin code, etc that will tell me? Also, since I do not have a lift at the house can a simple transmission shop handle most of this with my oversight?

I appreciate all your help.....................

[Eddie]

Pretty sure all 383/440 Magnums recieved the 10.95 or (11" clutch as stated in the service manual), A transmission service shop should be able to handle it with your oversight no problem. I would seriously think about a new flywheel. I used an SFI unit but if you trust your's it should be re-surfaced if it doesnt have any heat scoring or cracks. Good Luck

[bradburm]

Thanks for all the advice.

Ac ouple of more questions besides a new clutch, throw out bearing and flywheel, anything else I should consider?

BTW, is their a standard spec for the flywheel as number of teeth? I am seeing 130 teeth and 143 available?


Thanks again.......


Brad

[fbernard]

When you replaced you clutch with the one Mancini recommended, what else did you change?
The new flywheel is mandatory if yours is cracked. You may have yours resurfaced if it's still good (I guess it's probably a little blue).

If you launch at 6K again, I hope you have a SFI flywheel and bellhousing, and good flywheel bolts...

What you should consider :
- New flywheel bolts (for example Mopar Performance P4529113).
- New pilot bushing, or better, bearing (the pilot bearing can be installed over the bushing that's further down the crank hole). Mopar Performance P/N P5007051. Unless you already installed one last time.

Once the transmission is removed, check for side play on the input shaft.

The job itself (changing the clutch) is easy enough, but there are some important details. If it is removed (can be done without removing it), the bellhousing must be exactly re-centered over the flywheel (because the transmission itself is centered by the bellhousing center hole). This is a 0.005" job. Complete procedure described here : http://www.moparchat.com/forums/archive ... 04619.html or better, in your Service Manual (with a couple pics).
You may need a set of offset dowel pins (P4120383).

The tooth count depends on your bellhousing, since the starter position is not the same (143-tooth flywheels are larger). From what I read in the MP catalog, 143-tooth would be the Hemi flywheel with the 10.95" clutch.

All flywheels in the current Mopar Perf catalog are 130 models. So I guess it's safe to say you probably have a 130-tooth flywheel.

Since I already have the Mopar Performance catalog on my lap, here are a few more refs :

Flywheels :
P4529142 : steel flywheel (30 lbs, good for launches)
P4876047 : Race steel (18.5 lbs)


Be sure to re-set the throwout bearing position on the clutch rod (so it's not in permament contact with the flywheel), and maybe install some sort of pedal stop if you change the flywheel thickness (there is almost a 1/2 inch difference in thickness between the 18 lbs and the 30 lbs flywheels).

[Eddie]

Impressive Fabian! Hell I'm keeping that myself! I need to know these things with my memory and all fading BTW, is the oddball direct drive starter for the Hemi only in 1969 I think, the 143 tooth flywheel? but still utilized the 10.95"/11" bellhousing?

[bradburm]

Fabian,

Thank you, wow quite a display of some strong mopar knowledge. I guess I need to pick up a service manual for my RR.

I will let you all know how it went............trying to get finished before Year Ones last show in mid November.

BTW, I do have a chally also but its just about restored, only a few minor things left.............

[Eddie]

Both sweet cars! I bet the decision to take the ....lets see.. which one today BTW, if you dont mind keep us posted!

[fbernard]

Impressive Fabian! Hell I'm keeping that myself! I need to know these things with my memory and all fading BTW, is the oddball direct drive starter for the Hemi only in 1969 I think, the 143 tooth flywheel? but still utilized the 10.95"/11" bellhousing?

I just remember that because I had to find it out for myself last year.

I'm not sure about the 130/143 tooth applications, since you can also find 8-bolt crank ("hemi") 130-tooth flywheels easily (that's what I have, since my new crank unexpectedly came with an 8-bolt flange when I bought my stroker kit).
So I simply counted the teeth on the almost new 6-bolt flywheel I had not planned on replacing and measured it across to find a similarly sized new one (aluminum McLeod, 14 pounds, it's great with the camshaft I have).

I heard some aftermarket bellhousings do have dual starter mounting holes to accomodate with either flywheel diameter.

[Eddie]

Thanks for the info Fabian, I'm going to have to face a similar decision myself with my 512 Stroker Low deck that I'm currently building. I am going to order that stroker kit from Brandon next month and will have to get the same 8-bolt crank in the kit. BTW, Fabian, The Keisler Bellhousing which I have utilized on my 440 Challenger accepts both permutations of the flywheel and starter you described. I believe this is the one you are describing that will work with either Chrysler Clutch setup for the B/RB family. I do not know if the Brewers Performance new released bellhousing accepts both however. The keisler is also S.F.I. sanctioned/approved.

[bradburm]

Okay guys, found a resto shop that is willing to work with me on getting the clutch etc replaced.

I am trying to order all the parts online with hopes that I get them correct the first time as the shop is going to charge me if they have to hold the RR over waiting on parts so Fabian and Eddie if you could indulge me .....I am getting the work done on the 14th.

The 11" clutch I will be ordering will it be 18 or 23 spline?

I need a reccomendation for a flywheel and I am hoping that I won't need to change out the bellhousing? or have to use a spacer..........I'm trying to make this as easy a replacement as possible but I am also wanting something a bit more beefier.

So here is my parts list, please tell me if I have missed something:

Clutch Kit (Pressure Plate, T/O bearing, Clutch,Alignment tool, clutch bolt kit)
Flywheel
Flywheel bolts
Pilot bearing
dowel pins


Thanks guys..............



Brad

[Eddie]

Unless the transmission has been replaced, it should be a 23 spline unit. www.brewersperformance.com has the required S.F.I. rated steel flywheel that you need if you want something stronger than stock cast iron flywheel. If you plan on dumping the clutch at high revs then I would seriously consider the S.F.I. wheel. Of course use the O.E.M. MoPar fasteners or ARP, grade 8 ect..The FW202 on the Brewers site looks like the model you will need, 11", 6 bolt, 143 tooth, 383/400/440, SFI approved, Neutral balance, Steel. He also has re-conditioned stock cast iron wheels available. BTW, if you havent already done so you might inspect the rubber bellhousing boot,(this is what the clutch fork rod fits through), Part#CRB783, or go ahead and get a replacement. They are usually torn or split and allow debris, moisture ,lubricant ect to enter the bellhousing contaminating the clutch assembly. They are also inexpensive@$6.00 .

[fbernard]

As far as I know, the 143 tooth/11" setup was only used on very few models. If you go that way instead of the 130-tooth 10.5", don't rely on us, call your supplier and make sure that the flywheel, clutch setup and bellhousing are compatible.
Make sure you have (or will buy) a suitable starter.

I think the best way is to buy all the parts from the same shop to ensure compatibility.

[Eddie]

As far as I know, the 143 tooth/11" setup was only used on very few models. If you go that way instead of the 130-tooth 10.5", don't rely on us, call your supplier and make sure that the flywheel, clutch setup and bellhousing are compatible.
Make sure you have (or will buy) a suitable starter.

I think the best way is to buy all the parts from the same shop to ensure compatibility.

I think you are right on the money Fabian! 130 tooth, same supplier, CenterForce, McCleod, ect.. a 'matched' combo, but you are right, the 143 would be rare, I think he has a 10.95 130 tooth, 6 bolt, but they make all that stuff in SFI approved as well.

[bradburm]

Fabian, Eddie,

Thanks for all the guidance. Eddie especially thanks for the Brewers Performance reccomendations, those guys know more about tranny's then I could ever hope to....

Here is where I am, parts have been ordered from Brewers, this was a process especially since I have never had the tranny out of the car.

Brewers helped me figure out that I have a 68 tranny in my 70 RR, no big deal since I knew the car wasn't all original, we also figured out that I have a Lakewood bellhousing (I know more about trannys then I ever cared to now : ). The car goes to the shop (I almost was going to get on my back and do it myself until the boss my wife threatened me with death if I keep messing her garage up) on January 19.

I have ordered a new McLeod 10.5" flywheel, Reproduction Bellhousing, McLeod 10.95 street package - both 18 and 23 spline and will send back whichever we didnt use. (Still don't know if its 18 or 23 spline - )

Anyway, Brewers was extremely helpful even if they are somewhere in Ohio..............

Thanks again guys.....will let you know how it performs when the work is complete..............

[Eddie]

Glad to hear it Bradbrum, since you live so far South you will be able to take it for a test drive and keep us posted, pics would be appreciated, get ready to burn rubber!

[bradburm]

Well its finally done and runs like a mother f..........when I bought this thing in NY it would barley bark the tires - now with new clutch, flywheel, throwout bearing and we rebuilt the tranny while we were at it..........I actually get some serious rubber in 1st, 2nd, and 3rd.........and I am running some BFG 275/60 on the back.............

Well worth the wait and Eddie thanks again for the Brewers reccomendation (Wayne) was invaluable during the process and especially when we started into the rebuild of the tranny.

I will be pulling instrument cluster tomorrow and once I get it back totally rewiring the car.

PS - I have some local dealers wanting to put my 73 Chally in their showroom for several months - any suggestions on what I should ask them for? Employee pricing on new challenger? All ideas are welcomed.....

Again this board is the best even when I am not working on the Chally but my Road Runner

Eddie, Fabian - best and thanks to both of you - if your ever in Atlanta, I owe you adult beverages, dinner whatever


Brad

[bradburm]

Here are pics of both

[Eddie]

Which one of those beauties to take out today?