[NZ440R/T]

Don't know if this is the correct forum but was wondering what you lads think.......

Forget fun, or rowing a 4-speed, forget cruisng in rush hour traffic, quicker get away (slam into D and floor it) and the one armed driving style of the Autos........
which would be faster?
IMO the manual would or should be faster under stock form, BUT!, once hp numbers rise the autos are quicker.......we all know an auto uses power to shift, but when your making 440hp+ that becomes less of an issue when the shifts are quicker than the manuals......kind of even-stevens.

eg: Say we have a "warm" 440-4bbl making 440hp-450hp, the set up is ALL the same DANA - 4:10's etc.
One has the Torqueflite-727, the other a A-833, which would be pulling quicker 1/4's? 0-60mph?

[dave-r]

Autos (when set up for racing) usually give a lower ET for the same MPH because the drive to the rear wheels is never interrupted.

In stock form a 4-speed can be quicker because stock automatics are never set up for racing but are set up for smooth quiet gear changes.

This is in drag racing of course.

On a circuit a 4-speed will run better in the hands of an expert because of the closer gear ratios and the ability to get into the correct gear at the right time.

Having said that there are automatics made these days that operate just like clutchless manuals. But when it comes to our old cars we can disregard them.

[NZ440R/T]

Thanks, great input Dave.

I see what you mean........OK lets say the cars are both in stock form say a 440 (375hp) or 440 6bbl (390hp) but you could modify the transmission by todays standards, like make the factory Auto have crisp racey shifts, and the manual short shifted stick and Heavy duty clutch etc, engines are the same as a concoures car just the two big gun tranmissions are modified.


Yip, I've also heard from a lot of reptuable guys that in circle track Manuals are the way to go unless, you can afford the new Ferraris etc with F1 transmissions, there shifting 3-5 times quicker than ANY race driver with a manual trans.

Cheers,
Carl

[dave-r]

If your are still talking about drag racing then in the situation you describe with two identical engines and the auto set up with a good stall converter and firm shifts then the auto will tend to be quicker by about 2 tenths even with an experienced driver in the manual car.

Of course there are always exceptions to every rule and no doubt you have heard of Ronnie Sox.

[NZ440R/T]

Haven't Heard of him but with this topic I take it he was a manual only drag racer with shifts of lightning? Is that close?


Yip, just annoying to hear the Auto's underated when really there best for straight out speed. After all these cars weren't built for corners T/A and AAR exmept......I think it's those damn 1.8 ricie auto's that give them there name, sluggish sloppy joe shifts with an annoying drone to go with it.


Well which ever way you look at it in Mopar we are lucky having two AWESOME transmissions in our line up, they are both good for different reasons and more importantly the engines there hooked up to are what makes them tick.

TorqueFlite 727
HEMI 4-Speed

[dave-r]

I wouldn't say the A-833 was a particularly good manual box though. I have tried using one and found its throw a bit long and sloppy. Without a centerforce clutch they are a pain to use on a big block. Mind you the sloppy bit might have just been that particular box. I have only ever tried the one A-833.

[dave-r]

Never heard of Ronnie Sox? As is "Sox and Martin"? Oh dear.

Sox and 'Buddy' Martin dominated Pro Stock when it first became a class (evolving from Super Stock) in 69-70.

Ronnie was known as "Mr 4-speed" because of his power-shifted record breaking runs. I believe 'power-shifting' is shifting without lifting off the gas?

Here is a photo of him from the 1971 WinterNationals looking over his shoulder at 140mph.

[NZ440R/T]

Cooool trhanks for the Mopar history.......sounds like he was the man to beat.

Powershifting or what I thought I was doing was all about matching the rev's and keeping that gas pedel "almost" all the way down, when ingaging the clucth be quick of course but only go down so far the slide of the side.

[dave-r]

Sounds too complicated for the likes of me. I learned to double de-clutch on old cars and that is about it.

Never got the hang of "toe-and-heal" either. A racing driver took me around a circuit once and tried to show me how to do it. It was hard to watch with the kerbs going past my ear at 120mph. I had a go at doing it for a lap or two and gave up. I was quicker just doing it the normal way.

Same in the 1600cc Formula Ford. There was hardly any room for both my feet in there as it was without doing fancy things with my feet. They make these things for shorter people than me. You cannot move your arms much once you are in the cockpit either and the gear lever was half way up my wrist instead of under my hand. I had to kind of bend my wrist under to change gears. Not easy. But I overtook a 2000cc machine that had a half lap head start all the same.

An old fart like me is quite happy with an automatic these days.

[NZ440R/T]

LOL!!! I hear you, I'll be there some day...... Seems no one else wants to input. I'll drive what ever manual or auto as long as it's quick I say, don't care. If it's quick, I love it.

[TX70Challenger]

Hey what about the TF-904 vs. A-903 or even the A-230!? I'm JUST KIDDING!