The Dodge Challenger Message Board

Hi mates, just picked up this afternoon a 440 block and parts to make a stroker motor, Eagle crank, all bearings, Diamond pistons, K1 Tech ally h-beam rods, Racer Brown cam and roller rocker gear, nice collection of parts, I'll post up all the tech specs during the week and then you can tell me what bits and pieces I need to pay special attention to and if the combination makes sense. Blocks been line bored, decked and bored with a torque plate, and is only 0.004" over stock bore.
A pair of Mondello iron heads were included in the deal but I think I'm going to use the Eddys I've got spare.
And the sun was out all day, nearly 20 degrees and I got to thrash my bike all morning, good day all round

Adrian Worman wrote:Hi mates, just picked up this afternoon a 440 block and parts to make a stroker motor, Eagle crank, all bearings, Diamond pistons, K1 Tech ally h-beam rods, Racer Brown cam and roller rocker gear, nice collection of parts, I'll post up all the tech specs during the week and then you can tell me what bits and pieces I need to pay special attention to and if the combination makes sense. Blocks been line bored, decked and bored with a torque plate, and is only 0.004" over stock bore.
A pair of Mondello iron heads were included in the deal but I think I'm going to use the Eddys I've got spare.
And the sun was out all day, nearly 20 degrees and I got to thrash my bike all morning, good day all round

I dont understand something you posted Adrian, you state that the overbore is .004 over stock. There is no way that the machinist can remove .002 per side with both boring and honing. Also with .004 over stock you would have to use custom pistons. Pistons are ground with a barrel taper near the wrist pin,(usually just right above it). I'm sure you meant .040 . This would give a final bore size of 4.360 and there are plenty of rings and shelf pistons available at this bore size. With older cast iron heads you have open chambers, this means that the max comp. ratio with around 92 octane,(ROM), would be no more than around 9.5 to 1 with closed chambers and a Quench design with alloy heads you can go to around 10.5 to 11 to 1 and with careful tuning would make a bit more power/torque and lose 50+ pounds on the front end high up.. Also you had the block line bored/honed,, this is a smart move to establish a precise oil clearance and bearing crush on the mains. Just be aware that you will most likely need a timing chain that is around .005 to .010 shorter than stock. I had to use a -.010 chain to have mine nice& tight. The head gasket has to have some attention paid to it, just make sure during mock-up that it doesnt overhang on either the block or the heads, especially if alloy heads are used,(this is VITAL). I would also check each main&Rod for clearance,,Plastigauge can be used if you dont have a dial bore gauge. You can also mock-up a piston&rod to both check deck clearance and to degree in the cam. It's much much easier with cam degreeing to use a single rod&piston,, less friction, the rotating assembly is easily turned by hand and makes cam to crank centerline much easier to establish with a degree wheel and a lobe dial indicator and to check deck height after establishing the block and crank are straight and true. Crank runout is also easily checked with a dial indicator on the mains ectt. Use good gaskets, clean everything including all new parts even if in boxes. My 'new' parts were all flthy!! If you want to use the stock 3/8 pickup which is perfectly fine, you can radius the oil passge intersection with a die grinder and a round ball shaped carbide die and this will greatly help the oil past this nasty restriction,, free,, cheap,,effective! I like Lubri-Plate Pro assembly white grease,, has plenty of high press. additive, emulsifies immediately in motor oil and protects the bearings during mock-up assembly, what year is your block? Be aware the thrust bearing changed in 1975 to a "larger" bearing,, they cant be interchanged without special machining. Diamond Pistons,,,Ki-technologies Cranks&Rods and Eagle are top notch parts. Hope this helps,, let me know if you need anything,,,,Eddie

I wish I still had my ZX-11 sportbike,, in 1993 it was the fastest prod. bike 145 HP 505 Lbs. After I got thru with it it had 155 HP and around 450 pounds. Very fast!! I love the new Kawasaki ZX-10R around 200 HP and 435 Lbs. stock

Here is a picture of the oil passage restriction in a Big Block MoPar. Very easy to 'fix'!! It's also a very good idea to chase all threads in the block with a special thread cleaning tool,, this tool doesnt remove any metal unless the threads are damaged. Make assembly and torque values more accurate. I use a torque wrench on virtually everything.

That answer blew me away a little bit ...... I know you get very excited at the thought of engine building and parts selection so I shouldn't be too surprised I guess!

I need to check the bore with a large enough internal bore mike to be dead sure, but the whole motor came to me as a collection of parts and an already machined block, but my friend who the stuff came from said it was honed to just that. The Diamond pistons are custom, they are forged with a dished top to achieve a c.r of 9.7:1 with closed chamber heads, I still have that pair of Eddys that I may utilise here.
The block was decked to 10.700" and is a 68 casting, has an S and HP stamped on the I.d pad and on the oil pan rail.
I'll keep checking stuff out Edd and let you know what else is there, the box of new parts is very deep and it just keeps giving, I found a set of SM lifters and a Profesional Products SFi damper in it this afternoon.

I had a ZZR too, loved it, the BMW S1000R I just traded in was 200 at the rear tyre, the new one I got coming is about 20 more and has a few kilos shaved from it, tips the scales at about 170kg

You stuck too many zeros in there Ade. It will be 40 thou over not 4 thou.

If you need to borrow a degree wheel and dial guage I have one I can send you.

Adrian Worman wrote:That answer blew me away a little bit ...... I know you get very excited at the thought of engine building and parts selection so I shouldn't be too surprised I guess!

I need to check the bore with a large enough internal bore mike to be dead sure, but the whole motor came to me as a collection of parts and an already machined block, but my friend who the stuff came from said it was honed to just that. The Diamond pistons are custom, they are forged with a dished top to achieve a c.r of 9.7:1 with closed chamber heads, I still have that pair of Eddys that I may utilise here.
The block was decked to 10.700" and is a 68 casting, has an S and HP stamped on the I.d pad and on the oil pan rail.
I'll keep checking stuff out Edd and let you know what else is there, the box of new parts is very deep and it just keeps giving, I found a set of SM lifters and a Profesional Products SFi damper in it this afternoon.

I had a ZZR too, loved it, the BMW S1000R I just traded in was 200 at the rear tyre, the new one I got coming is about 20 more and has a few kilos shaved from it, tips the scales at about 170kg

Cool, yeah I get aroused at any MoPar big Block engine build a 4 to 5 inch spring loaded T expander can get you into a rough ballpark of the bore size if you dont have a dial bore gauge. They are cheap but only as accurate as the user. Wow, didnt know BMW made a 200 HP rocket! Kudos to them! I havent been on a bike in over 18 years. If I were to get another one it would be a Zx-10R or better yet Carl Fogarty's steed a Race Ducati 999, amazing how far things have come in sportbikes! Keep us posted on the engine build,,sounds like a cool powerful, project! Just thought of a possible 'problem' although small,, make sure the damper is carefully fitted before cranking down on the bolt. Most high quality aftermarket dampers are slightly undersized. This may require a slight honing to achieve a light press fit. If it starts to 'tighten' up while using the tool STOP. Take it back off and get it lightly honed, try again. This may save that expensive crank snout at the worst and a new tool at the least.

dave-r wrote:You stuck too many zeros in there Ade. It will be 40 thou over not 4 thou.

If you need to borrow a degree wheel and dial guage I have one I can send you.

Ta for the offer Daveman

Adrian Worman wrote:I found a set of SM lifters and a Profesional Products SFi damper in it this afternoon.

Correction : That is an expensive bedlamp stand, not a damper. Here's what I said about mine in 2010 when the outer ring decided to leave...
viewtopic.php?f=13&t=9189&p=56702&hilit=Professional+Products#p56702

fbernard wrote:

Adrian Worman wrote:I found a set of SM lifters and a Profesional Products SFi damper in it this afternoon.

Correction : That is an expensive bedlamp stand, not a damper. Here's what I said about mine in 2010 when the outer ring decided to leave...
viewtopic.php?f=13&t=9189&p=56702&hilit=Professional+Products#p56702

Fabian that is so spooky it's unreal, yesterday after I posted that I remembered a situation you had with a collapsing damper ring and went to look for it but couldn't find it............... and you go and post it up right before my eyes
Thanks for the heads up mate, I'll get checking it

Measured bore at 4.324" to 4.325", couldn't quite understand it myself and I checks with the guy it came from and the block was on std bore and hand honed to final finish, so my original post at 0.004" was right, measured at several points up and down the cylinders with about 0.001" variation, although my micrometer skills are a bit heavy handed I tried hard to get some accurate readings.
Block was decked at 10.700".
Heads are 66 426 castings with 2.14" and 1.81" valves, the porting work looks the business, I don't have too much experiance with iron head work but this is as neat as some bike stuff I've seen done.
The blending of the bowl area to the runners is very neat and smooth, l look to be very uniform too, no sudden dips or gouges or steps in the work anywhere.
They are closed chamber, shame they are so good cos I'll be dropping the Eddys on anyhow

Some pics off my iphone, seemed easier to attach these than to type all the info in, hope it makes sense..........

Bloody hell mate. That is some kit you have there.

I know I'll only be able to use some bits of it, the heads and cam aren't much use to me, and the dampers a weapon
The block is 0.040" over Dave, when I measured it correctly, the clue is ln the piston and ring spec if I'd bothered to look. The oil feed for the pick up is still 3/8" which is a bit of a surprise considering the amount of machine work the block has had done.
I'll need some components to make the motor complete, oil pump, head bolts and cam bearings but that's about it really.
Some odd bits I haven't shown are a CompCams timingset and ARP main stud kit and an MP oil pump drive.
Hopefully get to start assembling the block in the next couple of months, I'll need some help in choosing the right cam, should be able to use the Racer Brown rocker gear still tho.
Got a pair of Edelbrock closed chamber heads to sit on top.

Holy cow thats a serious bit of kit bud...love it

Very nice Ade!

I'm just about to enlarge the oil pickup and radius the passage that I can see behind it, but do I have to be careful I don't damage the casting when I drill it? Sure someone mentioned before although its a relatively simple mod to be careful around this area of the block
I have the taps in stock at work, bsp, npt in 1/2" no probs there

The casting is pretty robust. Go for it.

dave-r wrote:The casting is pretty robust. Go for it.

......... you're on Daveman

Just go SLOW.

Adrian, have you ever performed this mod before? If not, use a drill motor with the handles so you can use both hands to steady it. The most important thing is to drill straight and to remove the chips as you go. This prevents the drill bit from breaking off in the hole and ruining your whole day! Keeping it straight keeps the factory angle and helps prevent the boss from cracking,, if it breaks you can always use a external pickup. "Keeping it straight" = The factory angle,,, not a 90 degree plane. I'm sure you know this but I had to mention it. The best tool is a milling machine but I know you probably dont have access to this equipment. From memory only--The drill bit is a 29/64 bit for 1/2-20 threads. Use a steady pressure and clean out the chips often!!! GOOD LUCK

Some piccies of the block and the oil feed hole, the boss around it looks meatier than I remember.......................please forgive the waste bin liner keeping it clean, its not a bag of shit, honest
The whole kit was assembled in the States by Don Gould @ FBO Systems.

Nice parts. That main cap is a workof art!!

I found some Cometic head gaskets in the parts haul, says they are 0.040" and for bores up to 4.380", I've heard of em but not seen em before, look weird with the component sheets all separated but will they work with the Eddys as well as the iron heads?

I've also got a Weiand Xcelerator pt no 7512 single plane intake that I had laying around waiting to drop onto my Challys 440 instead of the factory boat anchor that it's wearing now, will it work well on my car now or I's it worth saving for the new motor?

The Cometics will work very well. .040 is perfect quench and piston to head clearance on a zero deck plant.!!The dowel pin hole may need to be enlarged on the gaskets but thats an easy mod. The Weiand manifold is outdated. It works well for a stock 440 to improve torque, but you need as much air as you can get for your stroker plant. The weiand lacks plenum volume and cross sectional size. I would sell it in favor of an Edelbrock Victor,,it will be down about 30 HP compared to the Victor,, it will have gobs of torque down low but you need wheel speed, thats where the Victor has a big advantage! The Cometics will leave a 'fire ring' around the chambers, so make sure this is the gasket you want,, and that it clears the chamber before before final torque on the heads! Actually, any gasket will leave an impression on the soft alloy heads if it has a fire ring. Actually, I wish I had used a set of cometics!!

I like the Brass plugs in Dave "opes" Ade

Ta for the advice Eddie, i'll ditch the factory iron one on the 440 and use the Xcelerator single plane, think I may add a 4 hole 1" spacer, it doesn't owe me any money so I may as we use it, then find an intake for the 500.
What intake did you use with your mega squirt system?

Adrian Worman wrote:Ta for the advice Eddie, i'll ditch the factory iron one on the 440 and use the Xcelerator single plane, think I may add a 4 hole 1" spacer, it doesn't owe me any money so I may as we use it, then find an intake for the 500.
What intake did you use with your mega squirt system?

I never got that far Ade. I sold my MS to finish the engine project. I still used a Victor 383 on my Lowdeck with a E-85 Holley 4150(only a small 750). Eventually I want to get a sequential EFI,, probably a dual Map Fast EFI,, that way I can still have a dual fuel machine. The MS-II had to use a small 5/16 Fuel Comp. sensor. This is way to small to feed 617 HP. The Fast can use a dual map so I can run a 1/2 fuel line all the way to the regulator/fuel rail with E-85. 500 cubes needs a lot of air/fuel,, the only standard port intake I would use is the Victor or the dual plane Ed's RPM only a 10 CFM diff. between the 2 believe it or not!!!

The Ed RPM always looked like a 4bbl version of the six pack manifold to me. And for mainly street and occasional strip I would lean to that. If it was more strip and less street I would go for the single plane.

Ade, I forgot to mention the highest flowing standard port intake! The Indy 440 D it's a dual plane with huge cross section,,flows 20% MORE than the RPM and the victor stock, port matched and flowed on a flow bench it can flow a whopping 355CFM per runner! Must be used on a RB block,,or one would be on my lowdick right now!