The Dodge Challenger Message Board

Adrian Worman wrote:On that subject of trapped gasses I assume that was the reason for the trend of setting the 2nd ring gap slightly loose so as to get the gasses between the two top rings to escape

Yes, but that trend is mainly for higher RPM Race engines that are re-built frequently and have special low tension rings. It's all in the top ring! I think the accumulator groove is another way to get the same result but with class racing seal and friction battle each other and anything to get the seal with less tension and thinner rings, 3mm,,Dykes, reverse cut,, ect can gain you some power but at the expense of longevity. Ive never used Gapless rings but in my next build they will be used! Ive spoken with a few pro engine builders/Machinists who at 1st didn't like them. But now they embrace them!

Understood Ed ........... I'm starting the ring gapping and install this weekend, just got to thoroughly clean the block, crank and pistons again and trial fit one rod and piston to just double check the deck height.
Post up the results as soon as get on it

Adrian Worman wrote:Understood Ed ........... I'm starting the ring gapping and install this weekend, just got to thoroughly clean the block, crank and pistons again and trial fit one rod and piston to just double check the deck height.
Post up the results as soon as get on it

Cant wait to see that beast come together Ade!! It's also a lot easier to degree the cam with just one rod/piston,#1 too!

Fitted the crank and attached a rod and piston and checked my measurements.
Checked piston at TDC and the piston crown edge is just 0.006" out of the hole.
Pretty pleased with that, now I can start again

Ahh I thought it was goin too easy..........
Although I think this is overcome just by spending dollars at worst, still a pain tho.
I go to screw in the oil pick up tube just to double check all my clearances before final clean and assembly, and I spot a small crack in the outer wall of the oil feed boss, about an 1/8" of an inch deep.
I start probing about and a small piece of the casting broke off, it didn't look that thin but its failed so I assume I can just take a die grinder and mill down the top of the boss till I get it nice and flat again?
The alternative is to just splash out some dollar on a basic single ext pick up kit, the kind that Miloden make that uses the factory cover and a Melling pump, which I've gotta buy anyway.
I must admit its getting hard to get the K1 rods to clear the boss and pick up, so an ext line would simplify shit
I can use the Miloden deep sump I got then too and the windage tray clearance would be easier too

I would just smooth the damaged area. But if I had the money I would go the external line route.

#21001

STOCK COVER SINGLE LINE SYSTEM
A simplified system that is great where space is tight. Using a stock oil pump cover allows this system to be more compact with no need for a separate oil filter adapter. Will supply adequate oil supply up to 7000 RPM when used with Melling M63-HV high volume pump. Use with Milodon #30931 low profile or #31015 deep sump style oil pans. Works for both Wedge and Hemi engines and all motor mounts.

Does this look simple enough?

Adrian,

Here are some pic of my stroker that also had some tight spots It is a Milodon pickup and stroker tray
from them to as i used there great low profile pro turing oil pan that is just great !

Thanks Pat that's a really clear pic, but see where the collar on your pick up is, my K1 rods are taking up that space. I could fab it with a piece of 15mm copper tube brazed into the Miloden pick up but it will still be very close.
That tray you've got looks good, just deep enough to cover the extra stroke

Ade i use a 3/8 pickup but you use a 1/2 pickup if i remeber corekt so you would ofcorse have a tighter deal ! The pic is in a bad angel so it looks a tad tighter than what it is and it whas sad that i had to cut in
the tray to clear for the pickup but in al it ended up ok in the end

Yeah Pat you're right I do have a 1/2" pick up and I had already drilled the boss and passage out to 1/2" too.
Looking at the block compared to the 440 in my Chally now I can see that the oil feed is not centred as well and has made the top edge of the boss quite thin.
I'm going to do as Daveman says and grind the top down about 1/4" and run the tap farther down the passage to make up for it, their does look to be plenty of material to work with, that may also give me the chance to offset the pick up tube very slightly.

Ade i agree whit Dave´s surgestion that is the best way to solve it

Took me a while to get time to get back in the garage and start on this again, but I think I've cracked the pickup clearance issue.
Ground down the top of the boss where the casting was very thin and weak. Ran the tap farther down the o passage and installed this 1/2" threaded steel pipe for a test, clears by about an 1/8" and I've always got the option to grind the threads flat to give a little extra.
Just gotta get the crank back in and pistons and rods installed and I can see how much clearance I need over the top of the reciprocating assembly and set the pick up height against the oil pan floor.
Check it.......

Looks good Ade! Have you test fitted the pickup tube yet? Sometimes,,after enlargement the tube gets tight after a few turns, and needs more engagement. Hope your is fine! , 1/8th " is plenty clearance!

I'm using that piece of threaded 1/2" tube Ed, it's screwed right down to the taper in the threads.
I'll weld a 1/2" threaded socket onto the original pick up tube, then use a 1/2" locknut under the socket to set the angle and installed height of the pickup

NIce work Ade!

........and here it is mocked up, I can set the height of the pickup by running it up and down the threads and lock it off with the backnut

Nice work Ade! I like the adjustability of the PU tube height!

Nice work there Ade !!!! Just got home from my trip to Spring Fling & Mopar At The Strip so i plan to start whit my crazy carb thing soon and pict up what i needed for me fuel lines when i whas over =) keap up the good work so whe can hear hear sing soon

Been a long time since I posted on this project but today I summoned up the enthusiasm to file-fit the rings, hang em on the pistons, get the pistons on the rods and drop in the crank.
Tomorrow afternoon I should easy get the pistons and rods in the block, cam next

More pics of that Beast as you progress Ade!!

Couple pix from yesterday, I forgot what a pain in the arse Spirolox sre
It was probably a bit anal but I checked ring gap in several bores to see if there was any discrepancies in bore size. Thankfully there wasn't any I could actually measure, also I thought it a good idea to share the scraping of the tight rings across all the bores, just didn't want to end up scoring a bore.
The measurement factor for the comp ring was bore X .0045" which equates to just over .019" si st them to a tight .020". 2nd ring was bore X .0035" and that gave me just over .015" so they were set to a tight .016".
Oil ring stack was a no brainer

oh,,forgot to mention,,since you are using aftermarket heads,,check the dowel pin height,,make sure the head sits flat on the deck and the dowel pins aren't too long and preventing the head from sitting on the deck . I expand the SL about an inch then use my thumbnails and a small dull screwdriver to install the spirolox.

Eddie wrote:oh,,forgot to mention,,since you are using aftermarket heads,,check the dowel pin height,,make sure the head sits flat on the deck and the dowel pins aren't too long and preventing the head from sitting on the deck .

Thanks for the tip Ed
Already thought of that tho and I got a Mopar Perf block hardware kit to replace all dowels, freeze plugs, gallery and block threaded plugs too.

My next issue is the timing set.......... I was lucky enough to pick up a Rollmaster chain and billet sprocket set, but I overlooked the fact that the RacerBrown cam is 3bolt and the timing set is 1 bolt

Adrian Worman wrote:

Eddie wrote:oh,,forgot to mention,,since you are using aftermarket heads,,check the dowel pin height,,make sure the head sits flat on the deck and the dowel pins aren't too long and preventing the head from sitting on the deck .

Thanks for the tip Ed
Already thought of that tho and I got a Mopar Perf block hardware kit to replace all dowels, freeze plugs, gallery and block threaded plugs too.

My next issue is the timing set.......... I was lucky enough to pick up a Rollmaster chain and billet sprocket set, but I overlooked the fact that the RacerBrown cam is 3bolt and the timing set is 1 bolt

I did kinda the same thing,,ordered a 3 bolt RollMaster with the block Torrington bearing,,then realized I had my block line honed and bearing clearances set at approx. .0025,,,when I went to mount the timing set it was looser than a Sat. night Bar Wench,,,,ROFL

Oil pickup set up is great Ade - I'll have to come around and see

As promised, one bank in......

Very nice Ade! The hone looks smooth too! What kind of head gasket you using? I used a Fel-Pro Race 1009 bore size was 4.410 I think. My bore was 4.375,,the most important thing to check was no overhang into the head chamber. I came close to getting a Cometic,,but my deck surface and head surface were not prepared for a Cometic MLS.

I got a Felpro race at AND a Cometic set, problem is I need a slightly thicker gasket cos the pistons pop up around .006" so a .041" gasket wouldn't give me enough. I didn't want to get down to .035" cos I'm sure the crown would touch the head, especially on cranking and cold start when the pistons rock in the bore a little.
Cometic make a .051" available for my bore size tho.

Yeah,,I wouldn't go below .040 PTDC,,mine is .040,,.046 is in the 'perfect' range of .040 to .060 Quench.