dyno pull...anyone wanna guess what my stroked 451 did • 2 • The Dodge Challenger Message Board

by **73challengerguy** » 09 Jul 2010 21:50

thanks eddie for your input...ill be curious to see what mr george has to say as far as those numbers as well....what you say makes sense to me though.....timing is pretty crucial as I understand it....lil bit makes a big diff, what ur cam specs again bro?

by **73challengerguy** » 09 Jul 2010 21:53

and i forgot to mention i only have around 9 to 7 inches of vacuum thats why i had to swap out the 4.5 powervalve to a 3.5

by **Eddie** » 10 Jul 2010 13:51

73challengerguy wrote:thanks eddie for your input...ill be curious to see what mr george has to say as far as those numbers as well....what you say makes sense to me though.....timing is pretty crucial as I understand it....lil bit makes a big diff, what ur cam specs again bro?

On my R/T it's a 288/298 with .534 with a 110 LSA, but it's a hyd. flat tappet. I wished I would have used a mechanical flat tappet with my 4-Speed a Scott Brown Fast rate of lift 88-90% cam or a Racer Brown. :roll:

by **dave-r** » 10 Jul 2010 14:50

Mine is the Hughes Engines HTL3742BS solid lifter cam used with 1.6:1 ratio rockers.

Lift = 0.570 intake/0.579 exhaust.
Duration @ 0.050 lift = 237/242 degrees.

My iron 906 heads flow 262cfm on the intake and 204cfm on the exhaust at 0.550 valve lift.

by **Eddie** » 10 Jul 2010 16:14

Nice Cam Dave :thumbsup:

From the sound of your engine and your speed, I wished I would have used that one! Worrying about adjusting valve lash after my surgery made me choose the 'sissy stick' :lol:

I think Jeff,(Challengerguy73), if he made a switch to alloy heads and solid cam would give him an easy 450-475 RWHP at much higher RPM's of course. My Vacum is 10" at 900 RPM's

by **73challengerguy** » 12 Jul 2010 22:01

guys is there any articles out there about the explanation of the different cams.....so many types, Id like to understand more on this subject...as far as the ins and outs and plus's and minuses of all diff cams available.....solid, vs roller vs flat tappet...ect.....

by **Eddie** » 15 Jul 2010 15:20

73challengerguy wrote:guys is there any articles out there about the explanation of the different cams.....so many types, Id like to understand more on this subject...as far as the ins and outs and plus's and minuses of all diff cams available.....solid, vs roller vs flat tappet...ect.....

Here is a site that explains all the terminology of Camshafts and what effect it has on the Torque peak. Remember the larger the cam the higher in the RPM range the torque peak occurs, this is how you make Horsepower, the engine can make more power by virtue of the fact it can spin higher with more force. This will detract from the streetability at lower RPM's. www.webcamshafts.com click on glossary But more importantly,,the cam MUST work with the other components for maximim gain. The head intake port volume, the intake manifold, the compression ratio, exhaust system ect ALL play a vital role in maximum perf. if you over cam you end up with a peaky torque curve or a doggy combo until the revs are high. On the street Torque is vital. I think your combo is near ideal. If you want more power, I would check into other 451 combos and see what they run. But I will say that a higher flow from a set of ported alloy heads will only produce more torque at a higher RPM. The other way is pretty expensive,, a much larger engine, 500, 512, 542 would give you much more torque, hard to hook up now as it is :lol:

Solid Roller and hyd. roller cams that are steel billet will require some maintenance as they need to have their soft bronze intermediate shafts checked from time to time,(5-10K miles), also remember that if a lifter pops out of the lifter bore in an unbushed,(stock), block it will lose all oil pressure and destroy the engine. A flat tappet solid requires the valve lash set from time to time depending on the quality of the parts used. A flat tappet hyd. is the most maintenance free of the designs but has limitations. ALL hyd, cams will start to 'float' above 6200-6700 RPM's so if you have a set of ported heads or heads with a large port volume this may be a waste of money using a hyd. cam with those heads that are designed to make power above 6500+ RPM's unless it's a huge discplacement,, see how this all falls into place and what I was saying about the combination of parts? :lol:

by **73challengerguy** » 15 Jul 2010 16:22

Once again, I bow down.......thank you eddie

by **73challengerguy** » 15 Jul 2010 17:12

and eddie...honestly what do u see my weekest point is then.....with my cam numbers...or are u sayin my combo is as good as im gonna get without changin out to a better cam....or heads or both...lol

by **Eddie** » 15 Jul 2010 18:13

73challengerguy wrote:and eddie...honestly what do u see my weekest point is then.....with my cam numbers...or are u sayin my combo is as good as im gonna get without changin out to a better cam....or heads or both...lol

I think the guy that built your engine did a good thing by using a hyd. roller, it's perfect for standard sized ports which you have and makes great torque. If you went to a 'better' cam you wouldnt pick up a lot of power. A solid flat tappet might give you more bottom end torque and there are some good ones out there, I remember Dave telling me it made a big difference in his 440. And after I dyno my 500 I might change a few things around with the valvetrain for the sake of coast to coast reliability because I plan on driving this thing to Denver, Co. and Goldfield, Nv. then on to Las Vegas when I',m done and make a trip to Clitsville, Pa. :lol:

Your cam is basically optimised for your existing combo. If you went to a larger port volume you would have to use a 'larger' cam in order to take advantage of the ports. Bigger ports means slower intake velocity, which means a softer bottom end but big power up high. This is why new cars have variable valve timing. They can have the best of both worlds. But, a smart approach to a lot of sick fast street cars is the use of power adders. You can also have your cake and eat it too, but it comes at a price. Get too greedy and you can destroy parts real quick, the power they make is simply incredible with a mild tune. The lowest cost is of course Nitrous Oxide, the highest cost will be from a bolt on turbo/supercharger. :thumbsup:

by **73challengerguy** » 15 Jul 2010 18:35

okay now i got it....im a lil slow....ya know coming from redneckville Pa............by the way...isnt clitsville close to vagtown?...... :s007:

by **Eddie** » 15 Jul 2010 19:02

73challengerguy wrote:okay now i got it....im a lil slow....ya know coming from redneckville Pa............by the way...isnt clitsville close to vagtown?......

Yeah, it's near the Brewery in Pa. that made Grease a Dick Beer. No Joke! (Remember that old stuff?, I used to have a Six-Pack of it but gave it to a friend I cant remember his name) :roll:

Wonder how many big buks thats worth today?? :frown:

by **dave-r** » 15 Jul 2010 20:19

Eddie your mate here says

the heads are 452's flowed too 285 cfm suposedly

so if that is true they are plenty big enough to make 550hp or more.
Maybe the heads just need looking at a bit more closely??

by **Eddie** » 15 Jul 2010 20:32

dave-r wrote:Eddie your mate here says
the heads are 452's flowed too 285 cfm suposedly
so if that is true they are plenty big enough to make 550hp or more.
Maybe the heads just need looking at a bit more closely??

I think the 'supposedly' is being over exagerrated. I'm not saying the older cast iron heads cant be made to flow what the new alloy Edelbrock,s or Stealth heads flow, but it takes both knowledge and time to make it so. That takes money from a Pro who is willing to flow bench them and put the time in. I bet he just gasket matched the intake ports, cut new larger seats for the 2.14/ 1.81 valves and called it a day. Of course with his cam specs he might need a better cam like your's. It would still be a lot of work and money for a fistful of extra high RPM power wouldnt it? I bet below 5000 RPM's he would only show marginal gains with a solid cam fast rate of lift profile like yours. Also I dont know what is spring seats are like, they could very well need to be cut flat to run a stronger dual spring, dont know. This would add to the cost. If I were Jeff, I would seriously think about a shot, maybe 50-100 HP of 'juice' he would feel the extra torque immediately and get him hooked on NoX without having to touch the powerplant!! :thumbsup:

by **Eddie** » 15 Jul 2010 20:37

I wont tell a damned soul! :s009:

by **73challengerguy** » 16 Jul 2010 13:47

lol im too scared to run the bottle... :tears:

.....i think ill haul it down to bob george and let him put a tune on it......and leave it at that.....im trying to save money up to build a garage...to house the cars....losing my storage soon...(winter)......so i need a garage worse.....as long as i can pound them local riceburners into the ground, which i think i can..lol...im happy..... :s006:

by **Eddie** » 16 Jul 2010 14:06

73challengerguy wrote:lol im too scared to run the bottle... .....i think ill haul it down to bob george and let him put a tune on it......and leave it at that.....im trying to save money up to build a garage...to house the cars....losing my storage soon...(winter)......so i need a garage worse.....as long as i can pound them local riceburners into the ground, which i think i can..lol...im happy.....

I hear ya, I have a fairly large Garage, but it fills up quickly. Try and get the largest garage you can :thumbsup:

by **dave-r** » 16 Jul 2010 14:12

Your garage is bigger than my whole property Eddie. :lol:

by **73challengerguy** » 16 Jul 2010 14:20

post some pics of ur garage edwardo!!......give me some ideas

by **Eddie** » 16 Jul 2010 14:53

I will when the wife gives my Camera back. :lol:

by **Eddie** » 16 Jul 2010 19:40

OK here ya go.

by **Eddie** » 16 Jul 2010 19:43

#2 It's long enough for 3 vehicles parked bumper to bumper but I only place 2 in it at a time,(Thats what she said) :lol:

by **Eddie** » 16 Jul 2010 19:45

Inside the dark cavernous hole. :lol:

by **73challengerguy** » 16 Jul 2010 19:46

sweet digs man.......looks awsome bro!

by **Eddie** » 16 Jul 2010 19:47

My work area

by **Eddie** » 16 Jul 2010 19:50

My dream shop!! Actually this is my new digs at school. This Bridgeport is MY machine!! ALL MINE :s024:

by **Eddie** » 16 Jul 2010 19:55

Thanks Jeff. The Garage cost me $12,000 so I sold my Motorcycle after my surgery and financed the garage with that. I should have put a back door in it for extra ventilation when the damned carby runs to rich or the timing isnt advanced enough :lol:

The garage floor and driveway are all reinforced 6" High density Concrete. The driveway was an additional 8,000!! Damned home improvement bills. Just think of all the Challenger parts I could have bought with that! :rage:

My advice on a garage- get the largest shop you can afford. You will ALWAYS run out of space! Our hobby is too damned addictive,,I lay awake at night thinking of things I can sell/buy :lol:

by **dave-r** » 16 Jul 2010 20:44

My garage is considered LARGE by UK standards but is actually not even a double garage. It is so small i have trouble standing far enough back to take a photograph! :lol:

I think it is 20ft x 12ft from memory.

by **drewcrane** » 16 Jul 2010 21:00

You cant get enough garage,or driveway, the more the better,and good lighting, i dont have enough light :disbelief:

plus im not organized like you guys,im just a slob, but in the end its all good :s024:

by **Eddie** » 17 Jul 2010 0:21

Dave it's simply amazing what you have done with so little space. I would fart in there and make myself sick, no room to escape. :lol:

Drew I like your shop with the way it's set-up next to your yard and it curves up into your home kinda hidden from the street. AMC Jim has the Ultimate!!!!! I asked him to adopt me but he dont need no Pancho Villa lookin dude hangin around. :lol:

Yeah Drew, I need more lighting BAD :thumbsup:

and a 220 Volt outlet for my new Miller TIG Welder :thumbsup: