The Dodge Challenger Message Board

Mates, please help me with this, as I'm getting really frustrated and I have to apologise for this long and tedious story, just wanted to give mucho info, here goes:
I got my 440 running nice, booked an mot at my nephews garage, set off from home on what should be a 10 minute drive and made maybe 8mins before the car lost all power, then the motor cut and I ground to a halt at the side of the road.
It would'nt crank so I got my brother to tow me the last mile. When we lifted the bonnet to try and start it we found the battery flat, so we shoved a big booster starter on it and it fired up okay, idled nice and we left it cooling down.
Nephew drove it a half mile to his garage and checked the alternator outpot, it was'nt charging and was traced to a wrongly connected alt feild wire (my fault). I had just installed a Painless wiring loom,new alternator,volt reg, mini starter, relay and battery. I'm sure everythings ok electrically.
So, we take take a quick spin up the street and get 5 or 6 minutes into the journey and it all failed, just like previous
Once back in the workshop we start to investigate, only one thing was ringing any alarm bells, the fuel temp. The fuel line runs up the inner wing in rubber line to a glass filter, then onto the carb, a Performer 800cfm, via a steel and rubber line. The fuel pump is the original, I've bought a Holley 110gph mech unit as a replacement but have'nt fitted it yet.
If we start it up in the workshop it will run lovely for a good 10 minutes, take it out and it stops in no time. The fuel filter sometimes seems to empty itself in a couple of seconds, and the fuel in the carb seems to get very hot. One time the floats stuck and it pissed fuel everywhere.
The intake manifold is iron, a 68 peice, and I think I installed it with heat ris.er passages blocked.
Its an epic isn't it? What do you think then mates?

so it looses fuel at the filter after it warms up right,some times the diaphram inside the fuel pump fails once it gets hot , it is origonal you should get a new one, because hooking up an electric fuel pump requires more work , so just to see if it is the pump replace it and see what happens there,

it sounds like you have you electrical issues fixed right ?

If the carb is getting hot it does not sound like you have blocked off the heat riser. Was it getting hot with the hood up?

Those glass fuel filters are dangerous as they can easily break. But they are handy to spot problems like this.

If it looks like it is emptying then it either is not getting delivered or it is turning to vapour due to heat.

You can check the sock filter on the fuel sender is not blocked.

Check the pump and regulator output. You do have a regulator yes? Carbs like to see a constant fuel pressure.

But my money is on the usual cause of the fuel line getting bloody hot. Usually due to the fuel line being too close to the exhaust or an exhaust leak blowing onto it.

If the carb is getting too hot to touch the fuel can boil in there too.

I have got a new Holley mech pump to try, but I don't have a regulator installed. Never thought that was requred with a single line and close to stock pressures.
The feul line runs along the inside of the front chassis and turns 90deg into the pump. Outlet goes straight to the inner wing about 18" up and into the glass filter and its bracket. It turns 90deg and a short length of steel tube goes to the carb.
Dave, yes it always fails when driving, so hood shut.
I cleaned the tank filter a while back.
Back on the case today Ta

Is it just getting too hot under the hood?

How much initial spark timing you got? You need a lot with modern fuel and header pipes to keep the temp down and the exhaust clean.

If you fit the holley pump you should also fit a regulator and a in-line pressure gauge. Otherwise the pressure with keep overpowering the fuel bowl float. Or not deliver enough at low speeds. A nice constant pressure will maintain a constant fuel level in the carb no matter what the rpm.

Make sure you don't have an exhaust leak blowing onto that fuel line from a collector or something.

yes dave is right you need a fuel regulator and a pressure gauge i have a demon , work the same as a holly, and it needs 6 lbs of pressure at the carb, now i put my regulator ,and my gauge inline just after the carb, but yes you do need that reg. and gauge so you know .

I'm gonna pull the intake to see if the heat block off was covered when the valley gasket was fitted. Then I'll check the timing, install a phenolic spacer and see what happens then.
When I install the Holley pump can I still yse a single line with a regulator?

Adrian Worman wrote:I'm gonna pull the intake to see if the heat block off was covered when the valley gasket was fitted. Then I'll check the timing, install a phenolic spacer and see what happens then.
When I install the Holley pump can I still yse a single line with a regulator?

ok what i did was buy a new fuel line and ran it right next to the old one , then i used the old one for a return line, and the new baecame my fuel supple lines, and then i bought a new fuel sending unit and it has an extra nipple on top so i ran my return line there,

i would reccomend this so you will always have fresh fuel at the carb and what ever the carb does not use will return to the tank instead of stopping there at the carb, and the getting hot sitting there in the line,and causing vapor lock

dave did his a little different and i wish i would have seen his before cause it is in a good place away from the engine,i plan on copying a variation of daves set up on my wifes cuda

Adrian Worman wrote:I'm gonna pull the intake to see if the heat block off was covered when the valley gasket was fitted. Then I'll check the timing, install a phenolic spacer and see what happens then.
When I install the Holley pump can I still yse a single line with a regulator?

Yes you just fit a blanking plug on the second outlet. I don't bother with a return.

Just had a thought, instead of lifting the intake can I not just lift of the carb, or even the choke rod cover, and stick a long ipiece of welding wire down the passage to see if the gasket is blocked?
Something is bothering me, the operating fork on the Holley fuel pump is about 3 or 4mm shorter than the factory one. Seeing as the cam lobe is only about 7 or 8mm tall, I think there might be a problem. I'll fit it and see, only way I guess.
Also going to fit some heat proof wrap or similar to the fuel line as it gets near the headers and carry it all the way to the pump and onto the carb.

Adrian Worman wrote:Just had a thought, instead of lifting the intake can I not just lift of the carb, or even the choke rod cover, and stick a long ipiece of welding wire down the passage to see if the gasket is blocked?

Nope. Neither run into the exhaust. It would be bad if they did.
The hot exhaust runs through a passage in the intake from one head to the other. heating the intake and the bottom of the choke well without actually entering either of them.

Asked that Dave because the choke rod dish to the left hand side of the carb blows exhaust gas if the gasket fails.I take it thats normal? Does that lead directly to the exhaust passage in the head? Thats the part I meant

Does it? Maybe it does on that manifold. It doesn't on mine and I can't remember back far enough to remember if it was like that on other manifolds or not?

Perhaps I am mistaken then. Give it a go!

dave-r wrote:Does it? Maybe it does on that manifold. It doesn't on mine and I can't remember back far enough to remember if it was like that on other manifolds or not?

Perhaps I am mistaken then. Give it a go!

well yea now i want to know,see what happens, it is not that hard i guess

Did'nt need to remove carb and choke well cover, just touched it after running the motor for a couple of minutes and the intake manifold was double the temp at the crossover passages than the intake runners. Also the steel cover plate was very hot. You can see the heat pattern in the paint, where its discoloured.
I'll be very suprised if the passages are'nt open when we pull the intake.
Dave, when you said about making sure I've got enough initial timing to keep the motor cool do you have any base settings I can go on. Will I still use manifold vacuum or timed port vacuum?

If you are using manifold vacuum you probably have plenty timing. How much they like depends on the engine and cam spec. Mine needs 25 degrees before it will idle cool and clean.

perhaps your manifold is stuffed if it blows exhaust gases out of the choke dish ive never seen this on any mopar & ive been mucking about with chryslers since the early 80s & the dish is always sealed & only relies on heat transfer as far as i know

if it was open to the exhaust the mechanism wouldnt last very long

The bowl is held on with 2 small bolts and is tucked just below the carb base on the lefthand side.The choke mechanism that was fitted to the original Carter just hung in that bowl and the coil expanded and contracted dependant upon manifold temp.
We pulled it this afternoon and the gasket definately was open to the heat passages, so at least I've found a major source of heat

Eventually managed to lay my hands on a Felpro Perf valley gasket with heat passages blocked, but I am a little unsure on one point. The gasket set contains 4x intake facing gaskets and 1x intake valley steel gasket. My question is, do I use all the facing gaskets on a factury iron intake, or are they only required on an aftermarket aluminium one?
I e mailed Felpro but have'nt got a reply yet and I want to get on and fix

Use the steel valley pan. The other ones are optional if you don't want to use sealer but may make it very hard or impossible to get the intake bolts back in unless the intake has been shaved a bit.

Ta mate

Been a little while and I've got other issues (electrics again ) but I thought I'd better let you know the outcome of my cutting out problems.
We fitted a Felpro intake tub with crossover passages blocked and tried it...........cut out again but took a little longer.Started pulling everything in sight and while cleaning out the glass rebuildable filter I noticed that the fuel passages through it are tiny, about the diameter of a cocktail stick, even though there are 4 ports that don't seem any where close enough. Put on a big 1/2" aluminium filter and hey presto, loads of fuel, happy car for a little while anyways