The Dodge Challenger Message Board

I haven't been on this site for a long time, but would like to ask for a little advice or recommendations .

By the end of summer I should have enough saved up to buy one, somewhere in the price range of $6000-7000. I think it's time to see what's all out there and make my selection.

Here's kind of what I'm looking at roughly a 500ci street friendly motor and I want to swap my 6pack intake setup over to it. I'm wanting about 500-550 reliable hp, not something that I like a drag motor where I have to mess with it everyday just to cruise around.

I like the indy cylinder head 500 crate but it's alittle over my budget, but that should give you an idea. I was also looking at having promax build me an engines and having them tune my carbs for that engine.

Any recommendations would be greatly appreciated
Thanks,
jdb

Why not consider a stroker kit like 440 Source offer? You could specify all sorts of variations in capacity, compression, cam, aluminum Stealth heads etc, and still use your SixPak. Make a stout "plant" as Eddie calls it, then you've got a streetable, dependable every day engine that will slap a smile on your face every time you run it without having to fork out too much coin:lol:

You might want to check with Muscle Motors, or check the ads on the Moparts board. When I rebuilt my engine 3 years ago, it cost me around 5500 USD (block machining, stroker kit from 440 Source, a few tools, I already had the intake and heads).

On the other hand, if you want 500-550 streetable HP, no need for a stroker, a stock displacement, blueprinted big-block with good compression and the right cam will easily be there.

If I was on the market for an engine at the moment, a low-deck stroker with 440 Source rotating assembly and CNC ported Stealth heads would be near the top of my wish list.

Thanks for the replies. All ideas are welcome, I'm not set on doing one thing, thats why I'm asking. So I can choose my build/purchase ahead of time with a plan.
I'm not opted out of the idea of having my 440 rebuild, I just thought it would cost about the same to have a crate engine ready to go. Then I would have a spare to do what ever I wanted to do with.

JDB840 wrote:I'm not opted out of the idea of having my 440 rebuild, [...] Then I would have a spare to do what ever I wanted to do with.

A friend of mine did that last year, swapped in a second-hand engine while we are rebuilding his 340 to stock specs. Then we'll probably rebuild the spare to somewhat non-stock specs...


Take a look at the classified on Moparts, there are really nice engines for sale regularly there.

I pretty much have my mind set on what I want to do.

440source has a 500 short block and can buy the stealth heads for $600.

I will probably get of the valvetrain from hughes engines doing a roller set-up for less maintantence and free up all of the hp I can. This should put me easily put me where I want to be at
How does that sound?

JDB840 wrote:I pretty much have my mind set on what I want to do.

440source has a 500 short block and can buy the stealth heads for $600.

I will probably get of the valvetrain from hughes engines doing a roller set-up for less maintantence and free up all of the hp I can. This should put me easily put me where I want to be at
How does that sound?

So you are gonna buy an assembled shortblock from the source? Then get a 'roller' valvetrain for an engine that is 1 to 1.2 HP per cube? I wouldnt waste my money on the valvetrain. If you are only wanting 500-550 HP and want it to be reliable with very little maintenance with a mild cam like the one you are going to use to make 500-550 HP, I would put the money in the engine in other places like the pistons, rings, timing chain, cam and lifters, instead of alluminum roller rockers which are overkill for a 500 cube engine that is only making 500-550 HP. Plus alluminum roller rockers must be cycled and checked regularly, they dont have near the ductility of steel rockers. A shaft rocker system is very efficient, it doesnt 'flex' like a stud mounted system,(G.M. and Ford), so the alloy stuff is plain overkill with a small cam. Also you can get a Edelbrock RPM dual plane or use the stock sixpack, either way this engine will have plenty of low speed grunt, and be very reliable. Save the money for superior parts like timing chain, gaskets, maybe some CNC ported heads, this will make the HP even more at higher speeds and you could use a slightly bigger cam. I would enlist the help of a local machinist. When you start using a variety of aftermarket parts,,certain issues will arise. Example is what I just had to do. My Aussie built Damper is a very quality piece for the money. Billet Steel, SFI 18.1 approved BUT it needed honed approx. , .0008 to fit my PEP 4340 Forged crank, a honing arbor and experienced machinist is needed in this situation. Just giving you my experience. Eddie Out

I know you don't like Dave Hughes Eddie (and who can blame you) but I don't quite agree with you there.

I would use the Hughes ally roller tip rockers with the grooved rocker shafts. They have better oil control when set up with the correct side clearences and I would also use their 1.6:1 ratio versions as the geometry it still spot on and you are getting better lift and power for the same duration.
These rockers are really good quality and are far better than the likes of Crane and Indy etc.

In fact it is probably wise to use adjustable rockers on any cam with more than 0.450 valve lift anyway.

The Hughes rockers do not need to be cycled and checked regularly. Mine get a lot of abuse with my 6500rpm antics and I have never so much as needed to adjust them since they were fitted.

dave-r wrote:I know you don't like Dave Hughes Eddie (and who can blame you) but I don't quite agree with you there.

I would use the Hughes ally roller tip rockers with the grooved rocker shafts. They have better oil control when set up with the correct side clearences and I would also use their 1.6:1 ratio versions as the geometry it still spot on and you are getting better lift and power for the same duration.
These rockers are really good quality and are far better than the likes of Crane and Indy etc.

In fact it is probably wise to use adjustable rockers on any cam with more than 0.450 valve lift anyway.

The Hughes rockers do not need to be cycled and checked regularly. Mine get a lot of abuse with my 6500rpm antics and I have never so much as needed to adjust them since they were fitted.

It's not that I dont "like" Dave H. it's the fact that if you have any problem or even a question of his choices he is very hard to deal with. I didnt go to him to make friends/mates,,I went to get business done and he was impossible to deal with. I also dont take kindly to being called childish names and being treated like I was "out to do him in" his quote not mine.. Having said that, and the fact that he is on a budget I suggest the stock stamped rocker set-up. Sure the Hughes rocker and shaft system is superior, not saying it's not but he only wants 500-550 HP from 500 cubes. This will be easy to accomplish with the stock stamped valvetrain below 6,000 RPM's and if he uses standard port 440 source heads, his torque peak will be around 3600-4200 RPM's depending on camshaft. Peak HP will occur about 5500-5800 RPM's well within the stock OEM valvetrain, then he could spend his money on a nice cam/lifters either a Hughes FRL,(Fast rate of lift) cam and nice timing chain, high quality gaskets, maybe some ARP fasteners, ectt Since the shaft mounted rockers 'revolve' around a fulcrum that fastened as securely as the MoPar shaft mount system, the only 'real' gain I see is with improving the rocker ratio to what the specs call for and the factory stamped steel arms fall short of the 1.5 ratio, therefore the alloy stuff has an advantage there. Another steel option is Ductile Iron Rockers from Isky, RAS, and other aftermarket sources, you can even bronze bush them for over .550-.600 lift fast ramp design cams, but he shouldnt need any of this with his build. And thats a lot of money for little gain. 5-10 HP maybe The only reason why I went with my setup is for whats coming down the pike in the future. Race Cam, solid roller,, max wedge heads,,ectt Sorry, but NO ONE can convince me that alluminum rockers regardless of the manufacturer,(I think Ed Iskenderian makes Hughes stuff or Probe Industries does), dont require a careful check from time to time which is why Jesel now makes lightweight steel rocker systems. When the failing point of alloy happens it's hard to detect sometimes. I guess you can guess I'm not fond of alloy rockers except for modified engines.

To be honest I wouldn't even use the stock stamped steel rockers on a kids toy let alone a performance engine.

Real men have engines with parts that can be adjusted!

My main concern is reliablity.

I know the 500 might be a little over kill, but in the future if I want more hp, I don't want to go back and wish I got something bigger. I haven't bought anything yet, so I want to get a general consenses before I do.

What's wrong with buying there shortblock? I'm curious, is there something wrong with there setup?

There's nothing wrong with a little debate, that's what I want which will help me choose the right combination for my needs.

JDB840 wrote:My main concern is reliablity.

I know the 500 might be a little over kill, but in the future if I want more hp, I don't want to go back and wish I got something bigger. I haven't bought anything yet, so I want to get a general consenses before I do.

What's wrong with buying there shortblock? I'm curious, is there something wrong with there setup?

There's nothing wrong with a little debate, that's what I want which will help me choose the right combination for my needs.

I didnt know they sold a complete shortblock? I thought it was a block only and then you bought their Stroker kit? If thats the case I would seek the aid of a Auto Machine shop to hone the block to the piston skirt diameter, check the oil clearance in regards to the mains/rods. Kits' are nice as long as the machining done to the block 'matches' the stroker kit thats going to be used in it. This way 'problems' are minimal during mock-up and assembly. Or maybe they offer that service? YES, build the stoutest shortblock you can afford, this way future upgrades like Cam, heads are 'easily' changed even in the car. The block however is a bitch! They have a '230' 400 Lowdeck block for sale for $1,999 which is the strongest and thickest main web wedge block made by MoPar. As with ALL aftermarket parts made for OEM engines,, careful planning and checks of the parts and their fitment must be performed before final assembly. Friendly debate is what we're all about here. Even if it seems "agricultural" at times LOL Just kiddin Dave. Hope Pat sees this.!