The Dodge Challenger Message Board

I'm having to build a whole new motor because the shop left mine uncovered and loaded it with water then tried to inline bore it on a engine stand on a hill!!! bought new block had it machined .30 got a set of 360 heads. don't know if the will help or not? casting #3671587-12 how big is the valve and will they run a 4 barrel carb? I have a 84 318 block. I know nothing about building motors!!! please3 help!!!!!

First find a new shop. Yes, the heads are decent but nothing special, 1.88 Intake and 1.60 Exhaust, they will help the little 318 but I would be careful NOT to overcam that engine. An Comp Cams XE 268/.450 flat tappet. I would consider an edelbrock dual plane performer intake, small 570 Street Avenger 4 barrel. Very easy to set up and just adjust the idle set screw. MoPar/FBO electronic ignition. This would be a nice maintenance free package just good oil and filter. Probably around 275 HP with a smooth idle but a small amount of noticeable lope,,enough to make you happy and I'm sure you meant .030 'machined' and not .30 which is "Pert near 1/3 of an inch"!! 318 cylinder walls arent that thick!

airfuelEddie wrote:First find a new shop. .....I'm sure you meant .030 'machined' and not .30 which is "Pert near 1/3 of an inch"!! 318 cylinder walls arent that thick!

Oh yeaah! I hope Burdar is reading this! That's exactly what i meant by dishonest, useless businesses and poor service !

1/3 of an inch over bore -that would really be a 360 then! Seriously though, that description of a 318 build sounds very nice, and will still push you back in the seat. Probably wouldn't hurt to port match the Edelbrock to the 360 heads, eh Eddie? Just a $40 diegrinder and a can of WD-40. Might grab another 5HP

Sure Steve every litle bit helps But make sure you know how to port match before picking up the die grinder. Ive seen the outer edges "hogged out" which does nothing and can hurt flow. Ive also seen 35.00 'Hi-Tech' intake gaskets that were 'off' by at least a 1/4 " so if you use that as a template it can produce 'disastrous' results. This gentleman says he doesnt know too much about engines. I would leave the die-grinder in the tool box or have it professionally done. Plus the Performer line of intakes arent made like the Victors or RPM series intakes which are purposely smaller to let the engine builder/assembler port match the intake runners to the head castings. They are pretty close to the intake runners/ports than the bigger volume intakes.

thanks guys!! The 318 will begoing back in 1984 dodge w150. Low geared to pull, stone mason, mountains. I ordered kit from maddog racing. double rolloer timing, rv cam, headers, new 727 automatic, heads 3671587-12 if good combo. had truck since little kid and will be handed down soon. all help will be great thanks!!

Here's my W-150 on the dyno, I ordered it at my Dodge Store back in 1989 it has a lot of suspension mods but it's never been lifted. BTW, nice selection of parts. Might I make a suggestion? I would get 2 parts for your rig to aid in longevity and give the truck a huge difference in steering and timing chain life which is very short on the smallblock due to the length of the timing chain. 1). a MoPar performance timing chain tensioner available at http://chucker54.stores.yahoo.net/tichte.html 2). A new Borgeson Steering shaft The factory pot coupler is a very bad design. It allows fore&aft movemment of the steering block at the steering box main shaft. It wears out very quickly due to no grease zerk and the rubber seal fails allowing water and grit inside thus wearing it out in usually 10k miles or less. If you have 'loose' steering this is the cause and NOT the steering box. http://www.borgeson.com/TRUCKS/DODGE.html offers a bolt in replacement shaft that transforms these trucks into a truck thats is actually fun to drive. Installation is 1 drift pin and 2 7/16 bolts. 15 minutes or so cost is about 145.00 and is a lifetime needle bearing universal joint of very high quality steel and it's U.S. made. I have had one in my rig since 1994 and it's THE single best mod I have EVER made to any vehicle for so cheap and so little installation effort. My truck steers like a Lotus,,,well,,

Definitely get a Borgenson shaft. They make a world of difference. I had a ragjoint go out on me once while coming up on a curve with a nice dropoff beyond. Luckily it caught just in time.

airfuelEddie wrote: I would leave the die-grinder in the tool box or have it professionally done. Plus the Performer line of intakes arent made like the Victors or RPM series intakes which are purposely smaller to let the engine builder/assembler port match the intake runners to the head castings. They are pretty close to the intake runners/ports than the bigger volume intakes.

Good advice. Didn't know that about the inlets either, interesting.

ever heard of someone running a 340x head and a 360j head together? also looking for a good head to run. hard to find used elderbrock heads and ever so hard to find 340x or 360j. thanks again guys. Will be getting the new shaft!!! Good catch! So much play in my steering and was looking to buy new box!!

mikeandrandi06 wrote:ever heard of someone running a 340x head and a 360j head together? also looking for a good head to run. hard to find used elderbrock heads and ever so hard to find 340x or 360j. thanks again guys. Will be getting the new shaft!!! Good catch! So much play in my steering and was looking to buy new box!!

What condition is the engine in? Is it apart? Has the block been cleaned and prepped for assembly? Are you saying you have a set of heads with different casting numbers and want to use them? If so as long as the combustion chamber volume,(measured in cc's) and the port sizes, valve diameters, are the same I dont see a problem. If they are different in this area then NO I wouldnt use them in that fashion. The engine will run with less cylinder pressure on one side than the other. If you havent purcahsed or aquired a set of heads yet there is a cheap production head that beats ALL the LA heads is cheap,, made by the millions, bolts on any LA block with oil thru pushrods and a superior combustion chamber for higher comp. ratios without having to change the pistons, runs on cheap unleaded fuel 89 Octane is fine. Look no further than the 5.2/5.9 maggie heads. They will make more power than any other smallblock head and offer superior combustion chamber design. I can get Magnum heads for 50.00 a set locally used. Just make sure you have someone with you at the time you pick em up, they have a tendency to crack the exhaust seats,(especially on the center exhaust ports), if neglected by the owner who was too lazy to change coolant every few years. They also make new ones. The best new ones are the Australian made Engine Quest Magnum cast iron replacement heads. I would post a link but dont have that info. If you have a set of older LA heads make sure they arent the smog heads with the little holes near the exahust ports. If you use those with exhaust headers then the holes will have to be plugged. Good Luck

I got my block,bored.030, stock crank turned 10/10, new pistons 4 valve relief, had my rods reconditioned arp bolts. piston rings haven't been gapped installed. lifters,main bearings,gaskets and seals under bed waiting. my stock heads was with smog ports. I tapped them and plugged them to run the headers. Motor was running replaced seals and gaskets, on a 15000 mile motor when I had to replace tranny. I backed it in where I pulled the tranny and motor. I sent it to the shop to complete vaccum lines and thats when they filled motor with water. I bought the new block from machine shop which will not port and polish. GOOD guy though!!! He's checking the heads now 360 heads not j's. He will give them to me if I pay him to do the work. haven't heard from him yet. It cost me $283 for block,bore,recondition rods with my bolts from summitt, WHY DO BOLTS COST SO MUCH!!!!! , pressed pistions, installed cam bearings, cast painted block, and installed new freeze plugs, cleaned oil pan, and timing cover. good price? I was told magnum heads are no good without magnum block???? If will do good I can get remanned out of Atlanta for $350 Fair price? If it sounds like a good combo thats what I'll do. Do you reccomened the 360 heads or magnum? Money is an issue seeing how much time and energy and money I done spent and havent got to even crank my beast!!! I just want it done right so I won't have to do it again anytime soon. I'm not completly dumd to auto mechanics, just ports,combustion chamber sizes, "INTERNALS" Over the years I've replaced almost everything on the truck myself. manual locking hubs,axles, transfer case,tranny, timing chain, over the years everything!! My transfer case is red tag reman metal on metal. tore my shoulder out of place trying to put in by myself. No good help here. thanks for all your support on helping me get it back on the roads!!!

Since you are on a budget and this is for a truck and not a RoadRace machine, I would get the best deal on the heads whether they be LA 360's or any V-8 Magnum. The Mag heads will allow you too use a lower octane fuel making the same power as a LA with high octane. The reason is the combustion chamber which is dual quench, closed, 65 CC and will raise the comp. ratio 1 full point over the LA head due to the smaller chamber. But I must ask you this important question: What is the piston deck height as measured from the top of the piston at TDC,(Top Dead Center), it should be something like .025 to .015 down in the cylinder,, if it's at zero deck then the ratio might be too high for your truck. It will make more torque than the LA head due to the superior velocity thru the intake ports. The drawbacks are intake manifold selection is somewhat limited to a dual plane and single plane but with your package a dual plane is a must and Edelbrock as well as MoPar Perf. make a nice dual plane. The mag heads use Intake attaching fasteners that are straight up and down ,,,NO angle as the LA heads. The mag heads oil thru the pushrod instaed of a common rocker shaft. They have to. The rockers are ganged pairs similar to a small chevy or ford plant. ARP fasteners are very expensive due to all the heat treating and machining they do to their product line which is made entirely in-house and I wont use any other fastener on the Con-Rods than theirs. Hell I use their stuff on everything!!! If you go the Magnum route, you can use their magnum rear dump exhaust manifolds and still make great power. Headers for our trucks are as are as Hemi Cuda/Challenger NOS parts so using a salvage yard set of exhaust manifolds is a cheap and easy way to get more exhaust flow and they make good torque and wont sound tingy and chaep like the cheap rusty Hookers I have on my rig. They are also very expensive for only thing 3/16 flanges and 18 gauge tubing. The frame gets in the way of our down tubes. I have about 1/4" of frame clearance around my headers,,but I can sit down in the engine bay when working on my rigs' powerplant

I will have to short block the motor before I can figure deck height right? I need to have the my piston rings gapped and installed first somethig I've never done. Everything is sitting and waiting. My headers give me about 3/4 inch from frame, just a pain to get to oil filter. Can I run the header with the magnum heads? My headers are brand new! Headmans I got lucky to get that would work seeing a header isn't offered for the automatic truck. Was sold a set, tapped and plugged smog ports then they wouldn't go on. Advance auto parts. I went back in mad and asked if they was going to replace my heads, gaskets. refunded my money and gaskets once I found the headers. ON THE OLD MOTOR THAT GOT THE WATER. Is it hard to gap and install rings on new pistons? once I get them done, I think I can short block it. Measure deck height to see about my heads. I got my torque specs, and think I can do the rest. When I install pistons, what cylinder should my piston be all the way up? any to check deck height by turning crank? any, when I install I install balancer I will find top dead center? right? I found a 1970 dodge motor home with 360 4 barrell running 70000 miles $600 bucks. Waiting on machine shop info. will go look at motor home next week. Sounds like a deal to just buy motor home all works! fridge,ac,stove,etc who knows got horse that needs to go, van that needs to go, 10bulldogs that need to go, and ginseng. Something has to sell and I just might order elderbrock top end? thanks

mikeandrandi06 wrote:I will have to short block the motor before I can figure deck height right? I need to have the my piston rings gapped and installed first somethig I've never done. Everything is sitting and waiting. My headers give me about 3/4 inch from frame, just a pain to get to oil filter. Can I run the header with the magnum heads? My headers are brand new! Headmans I got lucky to get that would work seeing a header isn't offered for the automatic truck. Was sold a set, tapped and plugged smog ports then they wouldn't go on. Advance auto parts. I went back in mad and asked if they was going to replace my heads, gaskets. refunded my money and gaskets once I found the headers. ON THE OLD MOTOR THAT GOT THE WATER. Is it hard to gap and install rings on new pistons? once I get them done, I think I can short block it. Measure deck height to see about my heads. I got my torque specs, and think I can do the rest. When I install pistons, what cylinder should my piston be all the way up? any to check deck height by turning crank? any, when I install I install balancer I will find top dead center? right? I found a 1970 dodge motor home with 360 4 barrell running 70000 miles $600 bucks. Waiting on machine shop info. will go look at motor home next week. Sounds like a deal to just buy motor home all works! fridge,ac,stove,etc who knows got horse that needs to go, van that needs to go, 10bulldogs that need to go, and ginseng. Something has to sell and I just might order elderbrock top end? thanks

The edlelbrock top end would be nice,,especially with the 4.00 bore 360. Early 360 blocks were reportedly cast using 340 block patterns so they can be bored out to the 340's 4.040, what this all means is the 360 block from 1970/71 is a pretty stout piece. Since it's a motorhome engine does it have the A-727 transmission with it? On the subject of pistons, piston ring gapping and installation. If you have never done it before,, read a engine building manual first. Haynes Chilton,, All Data,,Pro-Link ect but I will help you as much as possible. You will need a few tools but some can be 'fashioned' such as a squaring tool, (a piston turned upside down with a ring installed to square the piston ring to be gapped in the cylinder 1/2" to 1" down in the bore). The gap depends on a couple of factors here. The piston manufacturer will have a spec and the ring manufacturer. What I mean by this is the piston may or may not be a Hyper-uetectic. This type of piston requires special gapping procedures. This piston is designed to expand at the crown or top of the piston and requires a larger gap on the 1st ring to compensate for this expansion. If the gap is to tight the rings will butt and bad things will happen. If the piston is a plain cast piston with little silicone alloyed then normal gapping procedures can be followed. Forged pistons require another procedure but most will be gapped at .004 per inch of diameter, so a 4.00" bore will have around a .016 top ring gap. It's very important to understand piston orientation as it goes in the block and on the rod. Some pistons have an offset piston pin, most aftermarket performance pistons dont. If the pins are a press fit onto the piston then the rod small end will have to be heated and the pin pressed thru the piston/rod assembly. www.kb-silvolite.com has a lot of useful engine building tips. After gapping the rings, the most inportant part is removing the jagged metal left on the ring after gapping. File this off but dont chamfer the ends of the rings. Then clean all parts with solvent and do a mock-up with a cylinder,,oil on a used bearing, rod&piston installed, completed machined block cleaned and cyl. wall lightly oiled. There are a few ways to do this but heres one without using specialised tooling. Bring it up to TDC,, dial indicator set up on top of piston,(if you have one,,if not you can just use a vernier caliper but it's not as accurate), needle brought up to the highest point just before the piston dwell ends and the piston starts to come back down. This is TDC. Now take a vernier caliper and measure the distance from the top of the block to the top of the piston. This is the piston's deck height. A vernier caliper and dial indicator can be purchased thru Harbor freight Tools for 30.00 bucks for both, or so. I hope your Dogs&Horse end up at good homes. Yes, cast Iron manifolds or exhaust headers can be used on both Maggie and LA plants. They have the same funky exhaust pattern

Here's my ring grinder. You can also take a piece of wood with a set screw and another screw next to it to hold the ring square. Then put a 1" hole in between the two screws thru the wood. File goes thru the hole and can be used to square grind the rings. It's important to grind the gaps square and parallel to each other. A little trick,,grind only one side, that way the other side is untouched and perfect. Squeeze them together during grinding and use the 'perfect' side as a reference and hold them up to a light source,,any light shining thru the gaps is bad.. It's always better to go bigger than too small so dont sweat it if you over file the rings. It's very easy to do this. Only a few thou needs to be taken off,,usually .003-.005 which is thinner than writing paper. Always file towards the ring center, and remove the metal after grinding with a small file set or emery board. File towards the center and dont chamfer or round off the edges after filing, jsut remove the jagged metal evenly and square. I see a few engines from time to time with deep scratches in the cylinders from file fit rings that werent prepped properly. Keep the rings organised to the pistons and bore after gapping. These will then become 'married' to that particular cylinder. Make sure the piston rings you choose are MOLY coated/filled,, this will save the bores for future re-builds, plain cast iron rings uncoated are hard on the top of the cylinders.

Here is the link for the EQ Magnum cast iron replacement heads for either a 318/360 LA or Magnum engine block. http://www.4secondsflat.com/FBOEQmagazine.htm