The Dodge Challenger Message Board

okay eddie and dave....my dizzy is definately a mechanical.....but from what ive read and learned so far...is that my car likes the 34 total degree number, thats where its most crisp....so if i disregard the intial timing and just set the total at 34 degrees at 3500 rpm.....when i go back and check intial....im at 20 to 21 degrees on the dampner without touching anything.....is my mechanical dizzy compensating?.....can it do that?....has anyone ever heard that?........now im told i can still adjust the advance.....i havent touched it.....BUT when i wind that thinkg up to 5000 grand its starts pinging....so im either light on octtane? or still to much advance?.......im going to dup some race fuel in it and see....and if it still pings then i need to work on the advance......hows this sound guys????....thank you ...challenger guy

First of all.

Did you fit the bush and springs I said? if not then what springs and bush are in there? This is a MSD billet distributor right?

The initial has nothing to do with pinging. If your engine starts no problem with that much initial then that is fine and in fact is a good thing. I am surprised however that your initial is that high. I would have expected about 18 degrees initial with that bush.

What octane fuel are you using? 97 should be good enough.

Are you 100% sure it is pinging and not just an exhaust header gasket leak?

If you are sure it is actually pinging then try the better fuel or back off two degrees (initial or total) and try again.

If the noise is still there after doing one of the above then do the other too.

If the noise is still there after that then I doubt it is pinging you can hear. Unless your timing light is not correct.

Are you using a "dial back" light or timing tape?

73challengerguy wrote:BUT when i wind that thinkg up to 5000 grand its starts pinging....

This is when driving yes? If it is pinging then it only should occur when pushing hard or going up a hill.

there are no bushings.....its a mopar performancae aluminum mechanical advance......it has a adjustment, but i havent touched it......im thinking it has a large curve on it though....because when i set the intial at 18 first.(to clear up the heavy idle)...then the total is way over 40 heading towards 50!!!...no good...right?
so ive disregarded the intial and just went with 34 degrees....thats where it runs the best.....other than the pinging....Im pretty sure its not a header.....new headers on studs with new mopar per gaskets....i coudl be wrong but it sounds to me like dentonation.....
this is only when i hit 5000 grand...driving it.....everywhere else its great......awsome out of the hole too......
and when i check the intial after setting it at 34....its reading like 20 21...on the dampner....which is very well marked...(fluid dampner)
the best pump gas i can get is 93....im running octane booster with it????
i havent tried race gas.......i think i will bumpe the total timing down a coulple of degrees and see what happens......then try race fuel.....remember too....i have jump down 2 sizes in main jets too....at the carb folks request......could it need more fuel or would you stay with the smaller jets for now.......i could put the biggers back in it?

and im only going by what the mopar performance tech told me.....thats theres no bushing........so he could be wrong dave??????
im using a dial type light.....it has all the same degrees on it my dampner has....on the dial....it confused me so i just set it at 0 and used the numbers on the dampner....i will say though its tough to dial withing a few degrees....it bounces around a decent bit.......could something in my distributor be worn cuaseing this bouncing.....?????? its the only piece ont he motor thatn not brand new....( my dizzy)

Sorry. I could have sworn you told me it was a MSD distributor in another post.

If this is a non adjustable distributor you need someone that knows what he is doing to set it to a good advance curve for your engine. Try Don at FBO.

sorry.......i have a new msd ignition.....but no its a mopar perfromance deal....okay thanks

dave the guy at the dodge garage that sold me this dizzy 8 year s ago.....thinks theres an adjustmenti\under the air gap plate.....said might have too pull the dizzy out...to get to the adjustment....u have any idea how that would work as far as adjusting the curve if i can?

I think he has the older MoPar Performance RACE distributor with the huge reluctor spikes to generate a strong signal to the Hall Effect magnet. This unit is great for racing but is difficult to access the plate and to change springs/bushings/slots compared to an MSD Billet dizzy. I also believe this dizzy he is using now has an advance curve that is possibly on a continuing RPM increase curve that will cause detonation at an RPM that cannot be or is difficult to hear. This is very bad. Either change the dizzy out to a regular MoPar Perf. Street Unit,(you can plug the vacum advance canister) or MSD/Proform billet unit,(Preferred, the vacum advance is available on the Proform).

Send it to Don or buy one from him set up for your application. It will save a world of figuring. I don't like to give up either but these guys do it for a living.

73challengerguy...any updates?

Listen to these guy's! Don, at F.B.O., know's his stuff! I have his ignition, in my 73',340, Rallye. You will be pleased!!!
Patrick

i called the people at mopar performance tech line and they walked me trhough the dizzy i have....its just like the one eddied describe.....advanced increasing with rpm......thats when i ran my car up to 5 grand it started pinging bad......wont stop advancing....they told me to put the adjustment screws in the middle of the plate and start from there.....time it and see where the advancement goes.......gonna give ita shot and if i cant get it too work....ill send it to the guys u recomended......fbo

73challengerguy wrote:i called the people at mopar performance tech line and they walked me trhough the dizzy i have....its just like the one eddied describe.....advanced increasing with rpm......thats when i ran my car up to 5 grand it started pinging bad......wont stop advancing....they told me to put the adjustment screws in the middle of the plate and start from there.....time it and see where the advancement goes.......gonna give ita shot and if i cant get it too work....ill send it to the guys u recomended......fbo

Great move! Don will fix you up! Your engine will scream and will last a long time!

okay called don and talked to him....told me what to do.......BUT before i could do what he said....my header tubes on the pass rear glowed liked mad......that cant be good.........so i immeddiately shut it down.......cant get ah hold him now....weeekend......bums me out,....im scared to mess with it.....but i dont want to waste the whole weekend either....

[quote="73challengerguy"]BUT before i could do what he said....my header tubes on the pass rear glowed liked madquote]

Headers glowing : too little advance (ignition retarded, combustion still occurs in the headers).
The most likely culprit, usually.

Lean mixture would cause overheat, but that would rather register on the water temp, not header temp.

fbernard wrote:

73challengerguy wrote:BUT before i could do what he said....my header tubes on the pass rear glowed liked madquote]

Headers glowing : too little advance (ignition retarded, combustion still occurs in the headers).
The most likely culprit, usually.

Lean mixture would cause overheat, but that would rather register on the water temp, not header temp.

It was both Fabian. QuickFuel had him jet to a smaller jet plus change the idle air bleeds to a larger/leaner size. Plus the timing was way off! But you are correct! He also runs a stock 440/Hemi Carter Street Hemi Mechanical Pump. I told him a Holley Blue electric pump may help keep his fuel curve rock solid and steady. But first, he needs to get the timing curve tuned correctly. His Race dizzy had staggered springs in it. One light and one heavy. It kept advancing past 4000 RPM's and past 40 degrees. Plus the stop bushing to limit how much total advance was way off..I think a 18-20 initial, as Dave first suggested, with 16-14 mechanical for a total of 34-to no more than 38 MAX (He has open chamber 452 cast iron heads), all in by say 2600-3000 MAX should get him in the right ball park and then fine adjustments may be necessary or it may satisfy him. Then he can work on his fuel curve to fine tune it as the engine needs. he hasnt had it to WOT under load for a long period like a 1/4 mile drag race. First the timing then everything else will fall inplace. Hopefully

Spot on Eddie.