[Adrian Worman]

Hi ya mates
Got problems with my Dodge Ram 250 dayvan,1990 wirh a 318 E.F.I and 3speed auto with overdrive. It keeps stalling when coming to a stop, in really bad cases when speed drops to 10-15mph. Little tickle on the throttle usually catches it in time, getting quite exciting lurching toward stationary traffic at junctions. Happens frequently now so checked over usual stuff like basic tune and service items, checked condition of smog hoses and wiring but no improvement.I got a spare 600 Edel. with electric choke I'm quite happy to stick in place of the E.F.I Any thoughts? The trans hangs onto 2nd gear quite badly but if you let the throttle off it changes up fine,that can be fun.
Now little doggies fixed its a shame its such hard work to drive. Any ideas greatly appreciated as always.
Cheers, Adrian

[patrick]

Maybe a vacuum line popped off?

[dave-r]

Oxygen sensor fouled or faulty?

Just guessing though.

[Adrian Worman]

Funny you should say that Dave but on cold start it runs very erratic idle speed and tailpipe emits lots of black smoke. When its warmed up its got nice even tickover and very smooth but if it gets wide open throttle it does belch out a bit of black smoke. Never stalls in park or neutral though.
Is that 318 changed in any way from say 60's or 70's engines around things like intake,heads,etc.?
Thanks for the suggestions
Adrian

[Eddie]

First thing to do is take a fuel pressure test. It should be 15 psi. Second, Dave's diagnostic skills are quite astute. An Oxygen sensor reading is mandatory, they do 'wear out' actually coolant or oil will contaminate the sensor's tip and produce erratic readings. You can get the fault codes yourself by cylcling the ignition key on and off 3 times, dont start the engine, on the third key on engine off cycle, leave the ignition ON, then count the flashes of the Check engine light, it will flash a 12,(one flash then pause then 2 flashes) first, this is letting you know the PCM,(Computer is communicating in fault sequence if there is any codes stored it will flash them). A code 55 is five flashes followed by another five flashes, this is the end sequence of the data stream. What we are interested in is the codes in between these 2 codes. A paper and pen are handy here to write them down, dont worry is you miss any it will continue to cycle until the battery is disconnected for 30 minutes or a scan tool erases them. I am thinking dirty injectors/throttle body or O2 sensor is at fault. But it could easily be the MAP sensor too. Write the codes down and I will diagnose it for you. Eddie

[Eddie]

Maybe a vacuum line popped off?

Could be Pat. A vacum leak is cause for concern on any throttle body system as they are sensitive to vacum leaks. Multi-point injected vehicles arent. On a TBI system it will make the engine run rich, PIG rich!!

[Eddie]

Hi ya mates
Got problems with my Dodge Ram 250 dayvan,1990 wirh a 318 E.F.I and 3speed auto with overdrive. It keeps stalling when coming to a stop, in really bad cases when speed drops to 10-15mph. Little tickle on the throttle usually catches it in time, getting quite exciting lurching toward stationary traffic at junctions. Happens frequently now so checked over usual stuff like basic tune and service items, checked condition of smog hoses and wiring but no improvement.I got a spare 600 Edel. with electric choke I'm quite happy to stick in place of the E.F.I Any thoughts? The trans hangs onto 2nd gear quite badly but if you let the throttle off it changes up fine,that can be fun.
Now little doggies fixed its a shame its such hard work to drive. Any ideas greatly appreciated as always.
Cheers, Adrian

Adrian, if you want the best in Torque and fuel economy, Fuel Infection cant be beat!! No Joke man. You will lose maybe 1-2 mpg if you switch to a carb, also the alternator is regulated by the PCM so some extra wiring and a 1970's electronic voltage regulator will be mandatory. A new intake, custom made throttle cable and it aint fun in your vehicle to 'get right' this is from personal experience. I had to use a LOKAR assembly, the stock cable setup will not work. It's lot of work and money for almost no gain. Yes you're 318 is different, it has a hydraulic roller cam but non magnum shaft mounted old style rockerarms, kinda of a hybrid in anticipation of the 'magnum's' that eventually replaced the LA style engines.

[dave-r]

I knew you would come up with the goods Eddie.

[Adrian Worman]

Thanks for the speedy replies. I ran out to the van after work, all excited and clutching my pen and paper, ready to write everything down for Eddie and the ignition light don't work! When I get a chance at the weekend I'll investigate the dash lights. There does seem to be a couple of warning lights in the same housing as the fuel and temp gauges that didn'come on. The oil pressure gauge is the only one that lights up.
I'll test all the vac lines with a Mityvac and replace any suspect ones.
Let you know it works out.Thanks again
Adrian

[Eddie]

Adrian the check engine light is what you want to 'come on' sometimes it only comes on when the engine is started. Cycle the key on/off 3 times and leave it on on the third time and see if anything illuminates. My bet on this since I have had time to think about it and re-read your description is the Engine Coolant temperature sensor,(ECT sensor), it corrodes along with the cooling system muck and it is a thermisistor, if corroded it wont allow the proper resisitance and the PCM 'thinks' the engine is cold allowing more fuel, but erratically, causing the exact symptoms you described.(It simply unscrews from the intake coolant stream and has 3 wires, one signal, one power, one ground.) and costs approx 20-40$ here in the states dpending on dealer or parts jobber pricing.

[Adrian Worman]

The van was unused for 7or 8 years before I got it and the cooling system was so badly corroded I had to replace the rad cos it actually fell apart! Looks like you are on the right track mate.
Adrian

[Eddie]

See if they warranty electrical sensors where you live Adrian. If they do and you cant access the check engine light, you could buy one, install it and if it doesnt change anything take it back and get a refund! The cheap 'Hebe" in me cant be held down! If you choose this option call first and see what the price is, also most electrical sensors are easily damaged installing/removing, the parts jobbers look for blade insertion by the little scratches on the blade contact tips so find out before doing any purchasing. If I had to 'bet money' on this I would pick the Coolant Temperature Sensor, ECT is what Chrysler calls this part. The code for a faulty ECT is code 22 .

[Adrian Worman]

I'm gonna ring parts monkeys in the morning Eddie and jump all over the van at the weekend. I'll still try and get the dash lights working.
Certainly know your stuff mister!
Adrian

[Adrian Worman]

Dear Eddie,
I got my ECT sensor from local parts store and installed it over weekend. Good news...there is improvement in fuel economy, smooth idle and reduction in black tailpipe smoke. Bad news...still problem with cut out on tick-over, but it has drastically reduced. I put roughly 200 miles on van today and it cut out around 6-8 times, which is huge improvement on how it has been.
There must be something wrong with idle circuit because I removed the factory blanking plug from idle speed adjuster and set idle speed to about 850rpm in drive, with engine hot; despite this engine can still cut out when pulling up to a stop. I checked the vacuum hoses with my Mityvac at weekend, and found that the PCV? valve which pushes into the top of one of valve covers has always got vacuum at tickover...is this correct or is it not seating properly?
Improvements have been really good so far,Eddie......thanks man
Cheers
Adrian [/b]

[Eddie]

Adrian with the engine warmed up tap the throttle bore lightly with a small tool, dont break it, just tap it and observe if there is a change in idle speed, did you ever get a chance to cycle the ignition key on/off 3 times and see if the Check Engine Light illuminates? Also, with the engine warmed up and running, spray out the throttle bore with spray carb cleaner, move the linkage to keep it from stalling, this cleans out the Idle Air Control passage and improves the idle. The PCV 'works' or pulls vacum at idle, cruise and de-cel not WOT or cruising around or taking off from a stop. In other words it's normal, you can check the PCV by shaking it. It should rattle. Without those codes we are just 'guessing'. How does it run when you accelerate hard? Is the idle, now the only driveability issue? If it's just the idle thats the problem, it's probably the EGR. It only 'works' at idle. It diverts exhaust flow back into the intake charge to reduce NOX emissions, sometimes they clog up with carbon and thus causes erratic idle and stalling as you described. Unbolt it and remove it, then start the engine, it should pull vacum and make a hissing sound. If it doesnt it's plugged and the hole that it sits on top of can be dug out with a screw driver or pick, then re-install and see if it improves the idle. Now you know why I want/need those codes. All this can be eliminated with the diagnostic capabilities of the vehicle but I will attempt to help you as much as I can.

[Adrian Worman]

Hi Eddie
I can't seem to get any light to cume on when I cycle the ignition key other than oil pressure light.I must pull the dash mouldings off and gheck all the bulbs behind the guages.
Pulls really well off the line and kickdown,does'nt struggle on any hill or strong headwind and allways feels really torquey, even on light throttle.
Won't have any time till weekend but I'll keep you up to date with my progress.
Thanks again for your time and patience Eddie, your a star !
Adrian

[Eddie]

Hi Eddie
I can't seem to get any light to cume on when I cycle the ignition key other than oil pressure light.I must pull the dash mouldings off and gheck all the bulbs behind the guages.
Pulls really well off the line and kickdown,does'nt struggle on any hill or strong headwind and allways feels really torquey, even on light throttle.
Won't have any time till weekend but I'll keep you up to date with my progress.
Thanks again for your time and patience Eddie, your a star !
Adrian

No problem Adrian, glad to help! Try spraying out the throttle bore with gumout or other carb spary cleaner this always helps with the idle..Keep us posted!

[Adrian Worman]

Hi Eddie,
Just finished repairing dash lights and have managed to get the check engine light to come on. I've read the codes as best I can and they:-
3 (which you have told me might be 1 followed by slight pause then 2). Then 5, long pause. 8- long pause. 4 -long pause. 7- long pause. The last code is 10 which appears to be the finfishing code which you described as 5 and 5; there is only a very slight pause between the two 5's.
While I had the dash apart,I found a piece of loom with a multi plug on end and on back of dash pad there was a piece of printed circuit board that when held up to light I could see some warning symbols showing through.I don't know why it would have been disconnected but when fitted dash together I installed plug and now when ignition turned on as well as the check engine light coming on the other panel flashes 'maintenance required'.
I hope I've interpreted the flasing codes correctly as it's hard to judge the short pauses.
I appreciate all your help and if anything makes sense out of this and could be of use let me know.
Thanks again
Adrian

[Eddie]

Hi Eddie,
Just finished repairing dash lights and have managed to get the check engine light to come on. I've read the codes as best I can and they:-
3 (which you have told me might be 1 followed by slight pause then 2). Then 5, long pause. 8- long pause. 4 -long pause. 7- long pause. The last code is 10 which appears to be the finfishing code which you described as 5 and 5; there is only a very slight pause between the two 5's.
While I had the dash apart,I found a piece of loom with a multi plug on end and on back of dash pad there was a piece of printed circuit board that when held up to light I could see some warning symbols showing through.I don't know why it would have been disconnected but when fitted dash together I installed plug and now when ignition turned on as well as the check engine light coming on the other panel flashes 'maintenance required'.
"I hope I've interpreted the flasing codes correctly as it's hard to judge the short pauses.
I appreciate all your help and if anything makes sense out of this and could be of use let me know.
Thanks again
Adrian

Adrian, just to make sure we are on the same 'wavelength' as an understanding the flashes are "flash" "flash" "flash" pause "flash" flash"=32 OK? Now, on what I interpret from what you have written is a code 31 and a code 12 is this correct? If so it means the battery power has been temporarily disconnected at some point in time,(code 12), and the other code is the purge solenoid electrical circuit is in a grounded or open condition. The first code is nothing to be concerned about. The second code,(31), simply means a wire has been broken or the connection has been unplugged. The purge solenoid is critical to a good idle, check the hoses that lead to the charcoal canister in the cavity behind the passengers side headlight, make sure the vacum hoses are intact and not split. There is also a hose from the intake manifold to a round metallic canister,(The purge solenoid itself), that has an attachment bracket to the exhaust manifold, this hose may have become split or removed. The EGR, Purge solenoid, and charcoal canister work as a team to burn raw hydrocarbon emissions either into the engine or stored for a burn at a later time when there is too much HC in the canister. Try this test, disconnect the hoses from the charcoal canister, if it improves the idle my theory is correct.

[Eddie]

There is no code 58 and a 47 means the charging system is too low. Weak Battery or faulty alternator or the comnnections leading up to the battery or alternator output stud. But I dont think this is the problem. Did you ever test the fuel pressure Adrian? It MUST be 14.5 +

[Eddie]

To 'get rid' of the Maintenance required light, disconnect battery for about 30 minutes. Reconnect battery. If it stays on then leave it diconnected for a while longer. It doesnt mean really anything Adrian, it's basically to remind the driver to spend huge sums of cash at their local dealer on normal maintenance items. It comes on at automatic intervals of 45k, 75k, 105k, 145k miles (these are approx #s).

[Adrian Worman]

Hi Eddie,
Thanks for your reply about the diagnostic codes, I took the trouble to sit in the cab with my wife and cycle through the codes, writing them down and double checking until certain they are right.There are small gaps between some of the flashes which are hard to spot. We've gone over it again and againand here is the final breakdown:-
1 then 2 followed by long pause
1 " 4 " "
1 " 7 " "
2 " 2 " "
5 " 2 " "
5 " 5 the end!
Really sorry if mis-led you on first results but until I got your reply I didn't realize how I'd need to read them so went back and kept at it until hopefully got something that makes sense.
Cheers,
Adrian
p.s Full set encyclopedias for sale, genuine reason for sale.....wife knows everything!

[Eddie]

OK, here you go: the code 14 is for MAP sensor voltage is unacceptable,(The MAP sensor is located on the throttle body itself and has a hose going to the intake manifold and the sensor itself. Make sure the hose going to that sensor is not cracked causing a loss of vacum pressure inside the hose. Another hose goes to the PCM which I believe in your application is located behind the battery near the fender headlight well cavity.)If the hoses check out OK then the sensor needs to be replaced but can be checked at a part store like NAPA or possibly Auto Zone, this may save you some cash). Code 17 means Low engine Temp. This was probably from the Coolant Temp Sensor malfunction which you corrected. Code 22 means the coolant voltage was either too high or too low another words it registered out of range. Do you have a new thermostat in there after the flush&fill from the old coolant? Code 52 means the Oxygen sensor values are either too low or too high, so the adaptive enrichment procedure was insittuted by the PCM too protect the Cataylytic convertor from overheating and self-destructing). Another condition caused by the coolant sensor and the MAP sensor. Check the hoses, if they check out OK then either test or replce the MAP sensor and it should run like a 'top'! Hope this helps and not confuses you,

[Adrian Worman]

Thanks for that mass of information Eddie, gonna check it out over this coming weekend. One thought occured to me concerning the low engine temp code. When I renewed the radiator I installed one with a greater capacity and the temp gauge has never exceeded the bottom line since. The gauge checks out ok so I might try a different stat.Thanks for hanging in there and passing on all that knowledge, your head must be hoooge !
Adrian

[Eddie]

Anytime Adrian. Actually I have a peanut shaped head but my ears are huge. I just checked my data books and you MUST change the thermostat if a code 17 is set by the PCM. I would use a 195 degree thermostat and only torque the thermostat housing to 200 inch pounds or else it will leak. Also make sure your lower radiator hose has the support wire in it to keep it from collapsing. . Keep me posted

[Adrian Worman]

Hi Eddie
Just a quick line to let you know how stuffs going. Water pump shaft seal just let go last week and I'm gonna fetch new unit tommorow.
Bad shit happened this week, my Dad died and my smallest boxer dog who was real ill over winter has been diagnosed with terminal cancer.
Forgive me for not keeping in touch but my heads been somewhere else.
Must get my hands dirty soon.... its good therapy isn't it!
Adrian

[dave-r]

Adrian I am so very sorry to hear that. Very sad.

[Eddie]

Me too Adrian, let us know if we can be any help.

[Adrian Worman]

Dave,Eddie,thankyou for your kind words.
Adrian

[Adrian Worman]

Eddie, at last the van has started to run nice and mostly behave itself!
When we changed the water pump we swapped the stat for the rating you recommended and got a temp gauge reading straight away. The idle is very nearly perfect in drive now and it's only had a couple of off day's when it's stalled in traffic. Fuel economy has improved and it's a little more torquey off idle, I'm very pleased. We gonna treat it to a full service and give it a little birthday. Thanks again mate
Adrian
P.S. little dog's still hanging in there and it look's likely we'll be seeing most of summer with her.All finger's crossed.
Dad's funeral was a surprisingly lovely day, mainly because we were given special permession to hold it all at Bletchley Park, which was home to the Codebreaker's and the Enigma story during WW 2. Dad was a massive Winston Churchill fan and was a major benefactor to the site this last few year's and we were very proud. I really miss him.