Project 500 E-85 Flex Fuel E.F.I. Mega Squirt • The Dodge Challenger Message Board

by **Eddie** » 23 Nov 2007 19:48

Well I have the Low deck 400 Block at Hughes Engines. It's a S.B. 1976 400 Block, having the following done to it: 1). First thing is Sonic Check, if it passes and has enough thickness in the thrust regions...
2). Bore/Hone with torque plates to 4.375. 3). 1/2" pickup tube for oil pickup 4). enlarge main feed supply 4). install billet/ductile main caps with arp studs havent decided on that one yet either ductile which expands the same as cast iron but is much stronger, or bulletproof billet steel 5). Clean block. It's going to be a 512 Stroker with Sixpack indution. Will I end up with a diesel? Will a dual plane provide enough airflow for 512 Ravenous Cubes? Will the engine explode into oblivion on the first crank revolution? Who really knows? Stay tuned!

by **dave-r** » 23 Nov 2007 21:54

Eddie. Make your parts choice carefully.

Read this. If your rod to stroke ratio is on the low side (usual on strokers) you should really use a single plane manifold.

http://victorylibrary.com/mopar/rod-tech-c.htm

by **Eddie** » 24 Nov 2007 14:27

Good read Dave. Iv'e studied it for hours. I think the rod ratio deal is blown out of proportion. Yeah longer rods give more dwell time and reduce stress on the thrust side of the cylinder wall. Most Big Chevys and some Fords use a 1.4 or less RR and they dont have any problems as far as I have heard. My biggest 'problem' will be cam selection and with the 'small' dual plane will the engine be "into' the outboards all the time? I guess I could use some stiffer springs in the vacum pots, what do you suggest if you were adamant about the SixPack induction and picking a Hughes Solid Cam with 305-310 duration total and .580- .600 lift? Any advice/tips appreciated, from anyone, this is my first Stroker build and I need help in the buildplan stages. BTW, I want this to be a true Street engine. No Race fuel, 92-94 octane,(ROM). 72 inches larger than Chrysler's 440 sixpack, think street bruiser with gobs of torque and still make plenty of H.P. I dont want a Drag Race motor,(short duration high rpm), this is going to utilize a bunch of circle track parts, solid camshaft, steel rockers, forged crank,pistons rods. Think 600 Lb. ft. flat long torque curve, decent HorsePower maybe 580-610, silicone alloy valve springs, steel retainers, built for extreme abuse and endurance. What would you guys do?

by **Eddie** » 25 Nov 2007 13:51

Dave, or anyone for that matter. I need a 'favor' does anyone have any engine software like desktop dyno? I can give you my variables and you can "plug it in". From what I have studied so far, the small plenum and small runners in the stock intake are going to cause some 'tuning' problems for me. Plus the piston speed is going to increase dramatically needing a much longer duration,(intake), camshaft which in turn is going to need a much much larger plenum!. :frown:

BTW, I saw a cheater 496 sixpack at the Nats and it 'inspired' me, maybe it was for show only?

by **dave-r** » 25 Nov 2007 16:42

airfuelEddie wrote:Dave, or anyone for that matter. I need a 'favor' does anyone have any engine software like desktop dyno?

You have a PM.

by **Eddie** » 25 Nov 2007 22:31

I just had a 'brainstorm' how about the 400-470-5074 kit with aluminum heads and 84cc chamber would give me 8.89 comp. perfect for boost!!!!What do you think about a blow through Pro-Charger deal? I am going to take this class at our College and use this engine as the basis for my project for that class. This kit, if the cylinder walls clean up at this size over, would only be .005 over on each side. This would also run on any octane fuel even coleman lantern fuel, just kidding, because once completed this engine WILL BE SOLD. :thumbsup:

by **RedRaven** » 25 Nov 2007 22:53

Better look into buying a chute for that car when you stick her in the bay!! :mrgreen:

by **dave-r** » 26 Nov 2007 8:43

I am a big fan of the Pro Charger.

by **fal308** » 26 Nov 2007 17:29

Eddie,
Here's a link to what your new engine needs to look like.
http://www.glennbunch.com/album/airstri ... _9418.html

by **dave-r** » 26 Nov 2007 20:46

Oooh! I like THAT. :biggrin:

by **Eddie** » 26 Nov 2007 22:22

Thanks Barc, yeah I like that too. Who wouldnt? :mrgreen:

Got these in today. The Pro-Charger is the way to go! See the small scratch on the left? 50.00 off for that. 3/8 Billet Flanges, full size baffles 3"x3" under the 1" holes, with the ARP fasteners it'll look sweet Hemi Orange and provide the clearance I'll need with the rockers I want to use, Comp Cams Chrome Moly "bushed" rockers.!

by **Eddie** » 26 Nov 2007 22:43

dave-r wrote:I am a big fan of the Pro Charger.

With the parts used Dave, and the block mods I'm goint to do like the oil enlargement of the feed holes to the mains from the main saddles#3 and a high volume high pressure oil pump, possibly oil through solid lifters,(cam interface), bushed rockers, 2618 pistons, coated bearings, ductile iron moly rings, it begs for a blower doesnt it? :mrgreen:

by **Eddie** » 27 Nov 2007 22:26

Bad news. Check it out. Time for a new block. :frown:

by **RedRaven** » 27 Nov 2007 22:37

by **Eddie** » 27 Nov 2007 22:56

Wayne, this means the cylinders are much too thin to support high hosspowaa! The cylinder pressure,heat and thrust loading will cause a crack in the cylinder. You could "move the bore around a little bit to correct this but not this much. Dave Hughes has been "wrenching" on MoPars and is a Master Machinist since 1969, he said it was the worst he has ever seen. It's junk man!

by **Eddie** » 27 Nov 2007 23:01

This is what it's supposed to be like. This block went on to produce 650 H.P. and over 580 Lb. Ft. at 7000 RPM's 496 Stroker, built by Dave

by **Eddie** » 27 Nov 2007 23:05

See how much 'thicker' the walls are Wayne? .250 is a 1/4" thick .500 1/2" and so on. A minimum of .150 on the "thrust side" is what one would desire on the cylinder walls. The cylinders are surrounded by water and only 'atteched' at the top and bottoms so the thicker the better for performance usage. :thumbsup:

by **RedRaven** » 27 Nov 2007 23:12

Once again Ive been schooled by the Yank!! :thumbsup:

by **Eddie** » 27 Nov 2007 23:54

Learn it,live it, Love it! can you dig it man! I'm still going to get my alloy heads so I can play with my head in school. I'll show those girls! it's a nurses and tech college! I cant wait!! Class starts Jan 14! :thumbsup:

by **Eddie** » 06 Dec 2007 21:07

How does this block "look"? Dave Hughes is working a price up for me. 200.00 for the block, bore/hone to 4.375, which is .035 over. Hone mains and install Hughes Girdle. Deck the top of the bores. install cam bearings and intermediate bushing. I will assemble shortblock and heads/valvetrain as money becomes available. You guys are going to love the roller rockers I just ordered! Bushed Stainless Steel with .250 thick Chromed heavy wall chrome moly shafts with billet hold downs!(Indestructible)!! :thumbsup:

by **Eddie** » 06 Dec 2007 21:10

One book for school, 107.95 and the chick selling it to me at the bookstore on Campus asked if I would like to donate to some academic gathering, I asked if I could borrow a dime! I was broke! :mrgreen:

by **Eddie** » 06 Dec 2007 21:34

Here's the rocker arms. They will sustain 900+lbs. seat pressure!!! http://www.rockerarms.com then 440S roller. It wont let me display the page.

by **Eddie** » 13 Dec 2007 14:32

I bought the 400 Block from Dave. It has very thick cylinder walls and has thick main webs. Bore/Hone to 4.375, deck the top of the block for Cometic gaskets,(smooth finish), hone mains, enlarge oil pick-up to 1/2" Hemi style, enlarge oil feed hole,(#4), to mains, I will radius intersection myself, 678.00 plus another 150.00 for the girdle. I'll pick it up next month or so. :thumbsup:

Deep in debt and loving it! I just got my 440S Bushed Rocker Arms from RAS. They are works of art. Very Heavy Duty! These babies will rev and stay tight at high revs all day long! My Windows 'vista' wont accept any peripherals, new scanner, digi cam ect.. :fight:

by **Eddie** » 14 Dec 2007 14:45

These are the finest 440 Wedge rckers I have ever seen, the craftmanship is second to none. Stainless Steel, 1.6 ratio, bronze bushed full oil circuit with expanded reservoirs in the rocker adjuster area for increased lube at low speeds, .250 thick induction hardened chrome moly shafts, case hardened adjusters 8620 steel, 5/16 radius adjuster cups for ball ended pushrods on both ends, Heavy Duty hold downs. They are a bit heavier but this is "levered" weight which shouldnt hold the revs back like a heavy rotating assembly would. Hope they work as well as they look. The heads are my stock 906 heads used for mockup and fitment.

by **Eddie** » 14 Dec 2007 14:46

another

by **JDB840** » 04 Jan 2008 11:57

Good luck on the project.

i too have been considering stroking my 440 6. I've been looking at hughes website for a while, and would like to dublicate their 500 6pack engine. When I get me tax returns back this years, I'm going to purchase the top end heads rockers cam and etc. I will be asking alot of questions, seeing how you will almost be doing the same thing.

by **Eddie** » 04 Jan 2008 20:02

JDB840 wrote:Good luck on the project.

i too have been considering stroking my 440 6. I've been looking at hughes website for a while, and would like to dublicate their 500 6pack engine. When I get me tax returns back this years, I'm going to purchase the top end heads rockers cam and etc. I will be asking alot of questions, seeing how you will almost be doing the same thing.

So far I found the following things out with my project: I am using a Low Deck,(9.988 Deck Height), 400 Block. I spoke with Dave Hughes at his shop regarding a dual plane intake and the extra cubes. Will a dual plane be enough to feed it? Dave said it would be a tuning nightmare. The middle carb feeds both sides of the engine, one throttle bore for each bank, it would require some very fat jetting to run right, then the transition to the outboards would be tricky to run with out going lean,(ie bogging), until the engine has enough speed to recover and go to WOT with all carbs open. It seems the more I talk to people and read as much as I can about it, the more my mind is made up to run a Huge Single Plane and Pro Series Holley! :frown:

Keep in mind I want a true street engine with a flat torque curve but not run out of "breath" at 5000+ R.P.M.'s also keep in mind the engine either at 500 or 512 is considerably much larger than before and larger plenums are needed to feed the engine at higher speeds. As Dave mentioned once before, too bad we dont have a sweet M.P.I. Injected SixPack, that way fuel distribution is a non-issue. I currently have the 400 block at Daves being machined to 4.375 with Deck plates, Mains Honed for .002-.0025 clearance. Cylinder bores honed for 2618 Billet Pistons .006 clearance required for those, decked for Cometic gaskets,(smooth RA finish), lifter bores honed .001 clearance with his EDM lifters,(Oil through to cam lobe). When I get the block I'll post pics. I havent totally decided on the 500 inch with 6.76 rods and 2.625 rod journals with 4.15 stroke or 512 with 2.2 journals and 6.5 rods, both do not use piston ring spacers, which I didnt want to run on the street. Comp ratio is on the Low side. I am trying for a dished piston and 9:0 to 1 with alloy heads,(perfect for that Pro-Charger eh)

by **72challengerorange** » 08 Jan 2008 3:04

Sounds like a killer set up!

Tom :thumbsup:

by **Jimiboy** » 08 Jan 2008 9:45

Sorry i haven't keeped up! Where have you planned to put this little monster when you are done?

Is it in your pick-up or in the Chally?

by **Eddie** » 08 Jan 2008 14:08

Jimiboy wrote:Sorry i haven't keeped up! Where have you planned to put this little monster when you are done? Is it in your pick-up or in the Chally?

I am going to sell it Jimi. Interested?