The Dodge Challenger Message Board

nice looking carby youve got there eddie
cheers ian

its still having trouble

is it working yet

airfuelEddie wrote: The Hooker Headers are Used 1 7/8 Ceramic coated for a 440 in a 70-74 E-Body but they should fit the Lowdeck on the dyno just fine.

you may want to add fans to keep them cool on the dyno, I've read that ceramic coated headers are not recommended for break-in (they may overheat).

Yes breaking in the engine with those headers on will knack the ceramic coating. Use an old pair of headers for that.

Thanks for the good advice Fabian&Dave,,I'm out of money for the time being, I have to have an exhaust manifold/header, these cost less than my head gaskets, they have a large dent in the #3 tube for the steering shaft I assume, and they are starting to rust in specks all over. But the main deal is I gotta drill and Weld a bung for the wide band at one of the collector banks, so the ceramic coating at that point is getting ground off before welding, and I might have to drill a few pipes right out of the head flange for EGT bungs if we dont use the strap types.

ianandjess wrote:nice looking carby youve got there eddie
cheers ian

Thanks Ian, it's a QuickFuel Main body built by Horsepower Innovations 750 CFM 4150 Dual Feed, they included two,(2) sets of Main Jets and two,(2), sets of idle air bleeds. Scotty has my complete engine build on file, hopefully the EGT's/Air Fuel ratio on the dyno show major tuning wont be required

airfuelEddie wrote:But the main deal is I gotta drill and Weld a bung for the wide band at one of the collector banks

Do both while you're at it, you never know, you may switch to a dual sometime in the future (or wish to switch your sender from one bank to another)

and I might have to drill a few pipes right out of the head flange for EGT bungs if we dont use the strap types.

From the models I've seen (like this one : http://tscsensors.com/egtmp0720000ssnmuffl.html ), even strap types require a hole (the strap holds the EGT sensor in place), they're just for people who can't weld stainless.
If you go through the trouble of installing an EGT sensor.
Do you need one per bank or can the Megasquirt use 8 individual EGT sensors (or is that just for the dyno)?

Thanks Fabian for that link. The MegaSquirt doesnt need any EGT's it does need a O2 sensor for closed loop operation. I wanted to use the EGT's,(either a number cylinders one or two or all of them or a bank), it really doesnt matter it's just a tuning aid. The engine will be fired up with a Carby and hopefully I can get some needed data. I dont have the Mega-Squirt II anymore ,,had to sell it to finance the rest of this build. Kinda glad I sold it, they have a sequential MS III now! This would make tuning with a large overlap cam easier.

airfuelEddie wrote: I wanted to use the EGT's [...] it's just a tuning aid.

For that, I usually use a hand-held infra-red/laser aimed thermometer, they're quite handy at the track to diagnose mixture distribution problems or plug worries. Of course, a dyno shop would have sets of headers for each model, with EGT bungs on every exhaust port, but building this just for once...

I dont have the Mega-Squirt II anymore [...] they have a sequential MS III now!

I've seen that (spent some sleepless nights reading a bit on that subject lately). That's my winter project for the cuda, for a start.

I'm more inclined on using one of the FAST systems now (either the fire-and-forget EZ-EFI, or the infinitely tunable which-can-also-control-ignition XFI), long gone are the days when I had time to make all that stuff by myself. I still love to do it, I just don't have the time for this. And I already have a big electronics project for this winter too...

I'd say the EZ-EFI for the cuda, and maybe after that a full-fledged system for the Challenger...

Nothing wrong with carbs, actually, it's just that I was born 10 years too late to be maniac about them!

That EZ-EFI system might be a good starting point for me if I ever have any spare money in the future.

Checking the Valvetrain, I had to remove a substantial amount of material on the intake runners. The Trend 3/8 pushrods rubbed quite hard and wouldnt allow the rockers to line up properly.

another, (Mock-Up), I'll pre-Load the lifters about .020 1/2 turn past after seating the pushrod on the base circle. I had to make a few trips to the grinding station to achieve the clearance, I think Ian is also having to remove material as well.

I checked the clearance on my 906 heads when I fitted the new pushrods this week.

They are pretty close on some of the runners. So I can understand how adding material to make the runners bigger is going to intrude onto the pushrods a bit.

some great tech in this thread, i,m off over the states in just a few days and hopefully coming back with a pair of these heads, thanks to eddie with the work and info he has carried out i now know what to look for with these heads, still seem like a super deal for the money, top bloke eddie

All I need is a set of pulleys, I think I'm just gonna get a billet dual crank/water pump pulley. I couldnt use this 4 groove, it measures 7.5" I also need to 'cough up' 500.00 for a day on the Stuska Dyno I already have an FBO distributor/wires/NGK plugs, probably use the FR-5's. I TIG welded the wide band Bosch sensor bung in the Hooker headers, and they are ready to go with Fel-Pro gaskets and ARP 12pt. bolts. I have an oil pump priming shaft installed and will see how the rocker oiling works as the engine is turned over(timed oiling to the rocker gear)when hand priming. I think I'm just going to use 15W-40 Shell Rotella for the breakin oil. Then Amsoil 10W-40 Synth. after the rings get seated. I set the lifter pre-load at 1/2 turn past zero lash,(.018-.020), with the cam on the base circle, then locked it down tight. The contact pattern sweep looked good with the centerline of the roller directly on the stem center at midlift. The pushrods cleared and there is plenty of retainer/rocker/seal clearance with the beehive springs thru the engine rotation. Wont be long till I get some good Indiana Corn Squeezins down it's thirsty gullet.

Notice I am using an old Direct Connection alloy pump housing. I didnt trust the 440 source unit so I sold it.If it werent for the fact that I had to replace everything in that junk torqueflite except for the case and valvebody, it would already be on the dyno! (Water/Farms/Torqueflites dont mix well)

Nice to see it all in one piece Eddie. I can't wait to see the numbers it runs.

Hey Eddie! Long time since I've been on. Glad to see this project is still moving along!

-Dylan

gday eddie looks to be coming along great i still havent had a chance to get back to mine since moving house but i was able to get the clearance sorted out before i moved
i just got back online had to go with dial up so its all a bit damn slow but at least im back
cheers ian

Thanks guys, I made the appointment for the dyno guy. Next Wed. it goes to the Machine shop!

We had to place the Coupler Plate on the Bridgeport Mill and make 4 MoPar specific holes in the plate so we could attach the Bellhousing to it. Eric does a lot of GM stuff.

I brought my LM-1 Meter but he has a FAST Meter O2 configuration and runs Methanol so I should be set there. We are going to place at least 2 1/8" NPT holes on each header "bank" to read the Ex. gas temps, then the water temp. and oil pressure. Fri. Morn is the time we hope to make a few runs. I'll video it and of course take some pics and post em as soon as I can.

It made 561 HP on the 1st pull on gas. Tommorow morn. I'll switch it over to E-85 and my custom Holley to see if there is an advantage. I'll also bump up the timing to 36 deg. from the conservative 34 we dialed into it. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rV0e2YflTmw Crank it up!! There are 3 vids on this link.

The printout

Note: EGT's were around 1275 oil pressure at 80 PSI NGK's gapped at .038 More to come! The idle was very nice not too radical at all 12 inches at 900 RPM I think this would be a killer street engine which was my intention. I also had a slight oil leak from the valley plate which was corrected with the Right Stuff.

Well done Eddie!

But I have forgotten a couple of things about this engine. Could you remind me what the cam spec and static compression ratio in this engine is?

dave-r wrote:Well done Eddie!

But I have forgotten a couple of things about this engine. Could you remind me what the cam spec and static compression ratio in this engine is?

Thanks Dave, since it's been almost 3 years and thousands of dollars I too have forgotten a few things. . The Static Compression ratio is 11:2 to 1 the Cam specs are Intake 252@.050 304 total The Intake opens at 18.0 degrees BTDC and closes 54.0 ABDC Exhaust is 260@.050 310 total The Exhaust opens at 66.0 degrees BBDC and closes 14.0 ATDC .587 Lift with 1.6 rocker ratio. It's ground on a wider 112 Centerline to help the idle and is a Steel Billet Custom ground hydraulic Roller Camshaft, Lunati Hyd. Roller lifters, Trend 3/8 .080 Wall Pushrods, PAC Beehive Valvesprings with 200 Lbs. CLosed- 400 Open, RAS Bushed Roller Rockers. It accelerated cleanly to 6400 RPM's with no indication of valve float.

awesome eddie glad youve got it running & going well to
ive got mine built now to but havent run it yet
itll be good to see the difference the fuel change will make
im curious to see how it compares with straight gas
cheers ian

ianandjess wrote:awesome eddie glad youve got it running & going well to
ive got mine built now to but havent run it yet
itll be good to see the difference the fuel change will make
im curious to see how it compares with straight gas
cheers ian

I just got back from the dyno Ian and YES the E-85 made a big difference. Although I used this Holley from Horsepower Innovations and it's a better flowing carb and has radiused entries, Annular Boosters and is Calibrated for E-85 there was a 56 Horsepower difference and a 66 Ft. Lb. Torque difference with no other changes other than the Carb and fuel used. The Temperature outside was 15 degrees Farenheit and very dry. The dyno room is a chilly 40 degrees F. due to the fan opening. The E-85 was a bit difficult to light off, we had to crank a few times to get enough fuel into the cylinders but it did eventually light off. The E-85 has a stronger more cackle in the exhaust but all in all it wasnt that difficult to work with. I probably could have gotten a bit more out of it because the EGT showed an average of 1210-1230 degrees so we could have leaned it out a bit to make more power but I had eclipsed my 600 HP mark by 17 so I called it a day. The engine sealed tight, the plugs were clean with light tan deposits from the gas, the E-85 cleaned the plugs back to a white/gray on the porcelain and the timing was right on the ground strap curve just like Don@FBO suggests. HIs distributor he sent me was flawless and the timing was at 20 initial 14-16 mechanical although the engine showed no improvement at 36 from 34. THe RAS rockers, Trend pushrods, PAC Valvesprings pulled cleanly to 6400 RPM's with no indication of valve float. The heads were done making power at 5800 which is to be expected with 500 cubes and standard port heads. I think this would make a great street/strip powerplant that idles nicley, makes 12" of vacum at 900 RPM's has terrific throttle response and very little maintenance.