Project 500 E-85 Flex Fuel E.F.I. Mega Squirt • 17 • The Dodge Challenger Message Board

by **fal308** » 20 Nov 2008 13:44

Eddie, over on RCC there's a discussion on 440Source heads. They don't seem overly enamoreed of them except as a bare head to be reworked. Just an FYI http://ramchargercentral.com/index.php/ ... 968.0.html

by **dave-r** » 20 Nov 2008 14:40

Looking at the "real world" flow numbers for these heads it looks like they will support a minimum of 525 HP just as they are cast.

I think I heard the valve locks were not very good in the first batch made and one or two dropped their valves. I think I also heard that this problem was addressed by 440 Source.

Don't use the springs that come with the heads though. Get springs that match the cam.

by **Eddie** » 20 Nov 2008 16:25

I'll be using Scott Browns suggested Springs matched to the roller cams profile, I hope they are the New BeeHive as used on the Big Block Chevy's and will fit in the spring cups/spring seat registers, 10 degree Machined/hardened Locks, Titanium retainers, Severe Duty Manley Valves, Smith Bros. 3/8 pushrods. 440Max Stainless Rocker Arms, Billet Steel Hold downs, ARP studs. I'd like to keep the valvetrain as light as possible. It wont be cheap, either. Although I havent asked Brandon, if I can order the heads bare with guides installed to reduce costs? Thanks a lot for the advice guys, keep it coming, the next part is critical for performance so I dont want to make any mistakes, I simply couldnt afford to repair a screw-up so let me know if you think something is wrong. I have to say the hard part isnt here yet, and I'm getting anxious to get this thing up and running! Here is a pic of the trick Milodon oil dispstick assembly. It's O-ringed sealed internally. Made from solid 304 stainless steel. I forsee a small but insignificant problem. The dipstick only sticks down past the tube about 3-4 " that means the pan will have to be filled to at least 6 quarts before any oil registers on the dipstick. No biggie. See what happens when they make a Ford part for our Mopars :lol:

by **Eddie** » 20 Nov 2008 16:31

Another

by **Eddie** » 20 Nov 2008 16:32

by **Eddie** » 20 Nov 2008 17:16

I'll post a pic of it installed next week.

by **drewcrane** » 20 Nov 2008 21:05

is that a lopkar sure break dip stick, i had one and from engine vibration the housing broke right off at the block,i went back to a stock chrome unit,its accurate ,and lasts longer,call me ed if you need more info :thumbsup:

by **Eddie** » 20 Nov 2008 22:10

drewcrane wrote:is that a lopkar sure break dip stick, i had one and from engine vibration the housing broke right off at the block,i went back to a stock chrome unit,its accurate ,and lasts longer,call me ed if you need more info

Thanks Drew, I appreciate that! This is a Milodon assembly Part#22040 it fits only the threaded boss thats welded to the side of the Milodon Pan. It has a 5/8-18 N.P.T. Thread so a sealant or tape must be used to ensure a leak-proof seal. I use paste not tape. It will become more 'clear' after I get it calibrated then mounted. I cant use a factory tube type dipstick with this pan Drew. It is very shallow at the block pickup tube junction. And the Milodon oilpan doesnt have a 'guide' in the pan that the factory pan does to help guide the long indicator into the sump.. Today we had one of the instructors drag race cars on the chassis dyno. It's 540 BBC with Brodix heads,(I think) and roller cam, with 16:1 compression. it runs on Methanol, it made my eyes water pretty bad, but cleared my sinus congestion! This thing rattles your insides! It runs 5.13's in the 1/8 but I bet it sucks around the curves,LOL. We dont have any 1/4 miles tracks around these here parts.

by **Eddie** » 20 Nov 2008 22:12

They couldnt get it to hook. It spun the tires and smoked the rollers above 3000 or so RPM's.(The tire is 'loaded to the wheel in front of the roller, not as the picture shows, they have the car tied down until Mon. when they are going to strap it down a little tighter and try again)

by **Eddie** » 20 Nov 2008 22:14

Pretty big meats huh :lol:

by **Eddie** » 25 Nov 2008 2:39

by **Eddie** » 25 Nov 2008 2:41

The black 'sharpie' line is 8 qts.

by **Eddie** » 25 Nov 2008 2:42

Here is the final install

by **Eddie** » 25 Nov 2008 2:45

The top is secured by an exhaust stud in the cylinder head. Which will be here soon, then the 'fun' can begin!!

by **fbernard** » 25 Nov 2008 10:20

airfuelEddie wrote:Here is the final install

Pretty neat. Never seen a bung in the pan like that before. Who makes that pan?

by **Eddie** » 25 Nov 2008 10:29

Pan and Oil dipstick tube both made by Milodon. Easiest 'hole' I ever dealt with. :lol:

by **drewcrane** » 26 Nov 2008 17:16

well ed keep an eye on it ,cause that is a weak point right where ie goes into the block.
man i like the smoking the rollers stuff wow thats some torque,and as far as the "hole" we all like easy holes lol :s024:

by **Eddie** » 27 Nov 2008 15:26

Drew, I think you mis-understand the setup, or I am misunderstanding you. The Milodon dipstick doesnt use the factory lower 'cut/hole' in the block. As a matter of fact, I siliconed that hole and it has a .300 thick steel plate on top of it. Instead the dipstick installs directly into the oil pan sump at the boss you see welded into it. It doesnt even touch the block anywhere. The upper bracket is installed through the headers using an exhaust stud and 12 point nut. Cool huh! (This is a 'truck style' rear sump 8 quart oil pan, with 1/2" I.D. pickup tube, internal oil pan baffle, windage tray and block girdle with melling Hi-Volume Oil pump, ARP fasteners) :lol:

I held the dipstick up with my hand to illustrate what it would look like with the cylinder head attached and the upright position it will be in. It's also flexible to bend around any header tube. We'll see how well it fits when I get the heads/exhaust on, although a fabbed bracket shouldnt be too hard to make.

by **Eddie** » 04 Dec 2008 16:57

Ordered the 440 source heads today!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :lol:

by **drewcrane** » 04 Dec 2008 23:56

sweet ed ,those heads are gonna be nice
,also ill take a pic of what happened to my dipstick (the one in my car) :s024:

,and show you what im talking about,what you have will be fine i just wanted you to know what happened to mine
sendpix of those heads, :thumbsup:

by **Eddie** » 05 Dec 2008 18:11

drewcrane wrote:sweet ed ,those heads are gonna be nice
,also ill take a pic of what happened to my dipstick (the one in my car) ,and show you what im talking about,what you have will be fine i just wanted you to know what happened to mine
sendpix of those heads,

Drew,Did you have headers on it at the time? That's a 'notorious' area of leakage on B/RB plants. The pickup tube is simply pressed in with a 'crowsfoot' socket and pressed in. The problem is when you put a set of tube headers on, and it vibrates and rubs agin the tube causing leakage and breakage.(The same thing happens when my 'tube' is acted upon the same way) :rage:

Post a pic, Thanks for the input!!

by **Eddie** » 09 Dec 2008 16:12

The Heads are here! Thats the Good news. The bad news is I had to send my RAS 440MAX rocker assemblies back to RAS for a replacement! I took the rocker asseblies out for a "mock-up" and noticed that pert near ALL the hardened shims wre damaged! Not only that, the shafts had small 'burrs' on them right at the oil feed junction! I called RAS and they said to send em back. So back they went to Cali. today. Sorry for the poor pic quality, I spend all my cash on engine parts&Tools!! :lol:

by **Eddie** » 09 Dec 2008 16:14

The 'Shaft' that small little grey coloured area is a burr in the shaft. I can easily catch it on my fingernail. Against a softer bronze bushing the results would be disastrous, at least for me it would. :lol:

For 900.00 bucks for rocker assemblies I want perfection! :s024:

by **Jimiboy** » 09 Dec 2008 22:52

How typichal ain that, sorry for the delay and trouble of yours Ed, but cool to see progress! :thumbsup:

by **ianandjess** » 10 Dec 2008 12:11

wow thats a pain in the arse eddie paying good money for below average stuff i hope they do the right thing for you
cheers ian

by **Eddie** » 10 Dec 2008 22:17

Thanks guys, I'm sure Gary at Rocker Arm Specialists,(RAS) will take care of it. I dont think there is a stronger system out there. It might have happened during shipping who knows. Here are the heads. I noticed right away the valve heights are 'all over the place' but they appear to be a good buy for the price they reflect. It's just gonna take a little 'massaging' to fix. I wont be using the valves, retainers, seals, keepers or springs. :wink:

by **Eddie** » 10 Dec 2008 22:19

This valve tip had a pronounced chamfer on it. It was the only one to have such a sharp chamfer.

by **Eddie** » 10 Dec 2008 22:22

I hope they flow better than these! (220 CFM Intake@.700) :lol:

by **Eddie** » 10 Dec 2008 22:24

I will be pretty busy with other projects at school, but as soon as I get these babies on the FB I'll post the results. I'll also post any other measurements or data you guys want. Let me know. After I establish a baseline with the stock parts. I'll post the mods and gains/screw-ups, lol, I encounter. :s016:

by **drewcrane** » 11 Dec 2008 3:05

ya know ed the old pressed on tube problem ,yes and then add headers.+ vibration,then leak,=break,yep thats what i got,hope you dont have that problem,if i can find the part i will post a pic :tears: