The Dodge Challenger Message Board

airfuelEddie wrote:Oil pan

Deep.

airfuelEddie wrote:Victor 383 Intake.

Awesome.

Yeah, pretty nice. The pickup wont clear some of the oil pan studs which I already removed. I also have to remove the main cap studs to #4 and #5 in order to gain the necessary clearance for the oil pickup tube. So the girdle has to come off once again, main studs to 4&5, then hopefully I'll have the clearance.

airfuelEddie wrote:Victor 383 Intake.

Feel a bit behind when i read the last posts/ look at the pic's... You got a 400" block, right Ed? Is this block a bigblock then..? What i mean is.. Is the 400 the same as 383/440, just different bore/ stroke? Or is there other differences... is this better then the other bigblocks...?

Sorry!

Jimiboy wrote: What i mean is.. Is the 400 the same as 383/440, just different bore/ stroke? Or is there other differences... is this better then the other bigblocks...?

Sorry!

The 400 is a bigger bore version of the 383. The 383 and 400 are both "B" blocks.

The 440 and 426 Hemi and "RB" blocks with a taller deck height (longer stroke)

The 400 was designed to replace both the 383 and 440 in production cars. It was made with improvements to make the block stronger than before so it is considered the best block to use.

http://www.440source.com/blockinfo.htm

Ah! Okay, thanks a lot Dave... =) Does the small blocks got any name such as these "B" and "RB" ? =)

Jimiboy wrote:Ah! Okay, thanks a lot Dave... =) Does the small blocks got any name such as these "B" and "RB" ? =)

I will start from the begining.

Originally there were two basic blocks. The "A" and the "B".

A good example of the A-block is the old "poly" head 318 from the 50s and early 60s.

Later on Chrysler re-designed the A-block and produced a much lighter version which they then called the "LA" (Light - A) block. This LA block is the late 60s to 90s 318/340/360.

The B-block was the 383. But in the early 60s Chrysler produced taller versions of this engine with longer strokes. They called these engines "RB" (Raised-B) blocks. They were 413 cubic inches and then 426 cubic inches. This 426 wedge head engine was the basis of the 426 Hemi.

After this they produced a RB block with a bigger bore. This was the 440.

Yeah, of course.. "LA" i did not know every small blocks 318-360 had that name... Thanks Dave!

Nice shinny intake!!!

Problems. I broke a tap in one of the oil pump mounting holes. The threads needed tapped because the fasteners werent seating against the block flush like. After removing that hardened bit, it wasnt fun, I proceeded to 'mock up' the oiling system. The pickup tube wont fit over the windage tray without either bending the pickup tube, cutting sectioning it, or throwing it in the trash and using a remote oil pickup line ala SuperStock. I was wondering how detrimental it would be to omit the windage tray due to the fact I am using a deep sump rear pan, the liklihood of oil splahing around the counterweights would be slim, the dep sump would prevent that, and it is baffled to keep oil in the bottom sump area. Any ideas? Would you guys run an external line on your street engine? My CTD has an braided steel oil line that comes from the oil filter base to the turbocharger, no one ever accused those braided lines of leaking. My only concern would be that the line would 'evacuate' and the oil would drain down into the pan, then at start up would the pump lose prime until it built enough speed? I guess I could use a anti-drainback checkball type valve in the line? Ideas appreciated!

I have sent you a PM on the subject Eddie.

Fixed the threads. I think I can get the pickup tube over both the oil pan studs, windage tray, main cap studs A little 'persuasion' is necessary but shouldnt be too difficult. I'll post pics soon. Thanks again Dave, those pics sure look nice. I will mimic his if my tube doesnt fit right. http://eclecticinnovation.com/pumpcover.html

Out of money. I know there are a couple people following this post. I wont be able to afford any new parts until the 1st of the year. Thanks for your patience. The 1st of the year I will have a new set of injectors,(Delpi 50 lb./hr.), machined/welded intake, throttle body(1000 CFM unit), Walbro or Bosch fuel pump, 440 source heads, trick valvetrain featuring a hydraulic roller cam and beehive springs.

airfuelEddie wrote:Thanks again Dave, those pics sure look nice. I will mimic his if my tube doesnt fit right. http://eclecticinnovation.com/pumpcover.html

No problem mate. Nicely made part that don't you think?

Yes it is Dave! Complete with AN-10 line for the accumulator too. I like that feature!

hey eddie waht made u go with a crane roller vs cam motion?...just curious.......JM..

73challengerguy wrote:hey eddie waht made u go with a crane roller vs cam motion?...just curious.......JM..

Well to tell you the truth Jeff, I havent decided. Cam Motion has a whole bunch of off the shelf grinds. Crane has a few but either cam company make one for you no problem. I contacted Scott Brown and I think I'm gonna get my cam recommendation from him. He is VERY knowledgeable and much nicer to deal with instead of 'dickheaddavehughes'LOL Here is my oil pan setup. I had to bend the pickup tube about 1/4" at the elbow which gave me more clearance for both the girdle and the windage tray. I had to grind about 1/2" off the inside of the girdle with a carbide cutter. I made a slight inward groove to give me some necessary clearnce for the pickup tube. I also radiused the cut to keep it from gouging the tube. Also shown is the Melling Hi-Volume oil pump. To use the pickup tube brace I'll have to 'window' the windage tray in order to mount the L-shaped bracket to the #4 main stud. Without doing this I fear the pickup tube will eventually crack from the vibration and harmonics. Or you have the option of brazing the pickup tube threads to the tube. Have fun removing it however, and it must come out to remove the Girdle&Windage tray because it sits flush with both. I opted for pipe ARP thread sealer and the brace with the modified tray.

Another

Oil Pump with 12 PT. Stainless ARP Fasteners

Girdle clearance

I didnt have any wax or silly putty so I used a wad of tape. I layed the pan down on the assembly and it compressed it to the desired clearance. The pan is barley seated. Without the tape wad you can lay it on flat without it touching the strap.

It barely lifts it off the oil pan rail.

After determining all of this I took it back apart for final assembly.

thanks for the great pics & good info eddie im still waiting on my studs i hope they wont be to much longer but ive still got lots to do while i wait for them
cheers ian

ianandjess wrote:thanks for the great pics & good info eddie im still waiting on my studs i hope they wont be to much longer but ive still got lots to do while i wait for them
cheers ian

Sounds good Ian. I found a man who is going to have my cam custom ground for my application. He is one of the major suppliers to the F.A.S.T. engine builders. I am going to use him as my sole supplier form now on. His name is Scott Brown, #616-499-6223 just to whet your appetite. It's going to be a fast rate of lift hydraulic roller, .575 lift and around 285-295 Intake and exhaust duration. You will barley be able to hear it thump! It should make power to 6500 RPM's Perfect for a street car!!! 3/8 Smith Bros. pushrods with ball/ball ends and cut for a 5/32 radius in the rocker arm adjusters. Stainless bronze bushed roller rocker arms, 1.6 ratio. Custom Beehive valve springs, Manley Severe Duty valves in 2.14/1.81 I-E I will port the heads slightly, mainly in the bowl and radius areas under the seats.

Great stuff Eddie.

this is going to be 1 sweet engine eddie you are really putting a lot of thought into it not to mention the energy keep it coming this info is inspiring
cheers ian

Thanks guys, heres the link to my new supplier. www.buyracingparts.com ask for Scott Brown, very knowledgable and extremely helpful. He called me and spent an hour talking engine tech and never asked me about buying anything from him. NOTE: IAN did you have the torque spec sheet from Eagle or whomever manufactured your rods? Do NOT use the ARP spec sheet on their website. It is incorrect. The ARP2000 con rod fasteners,(bolts), are special made for the Chrysler H-Beam rod. It has it's own tightening torque spec. Do you have this info Ian?

Ordered a dipstick tube assembly,(Ford Racing), and FlatOut Racing re-usable Oil Pan gasket,(Chrysler B/RB), that is rubber coated, steel torque limiting embossed fastener holes, oil,alcohol,solvent resistant. The dipstick tube is made entirely from braided Stainless Steel, O-ringed at the very top and bottom of the inner tube, can flex around headers, impervious to heat, and is screwed into the side of the pan with a 5/8-18 threaded boss and is secured to an exhaust stud from the top side. Pretty trick stuff! I'll post pics of it when I get it in and installed.

airfuelEddie wrote:and is screwed into the side of the pan with a 5/8-18 threaded boss and is secured to an exhaust stud from the top side.

Yes, take pics of that, the Mopar offering from Moroso is not that easy to install (I have to hold the tube when I check the oil).

Will Do! Fabian By the way, I spoke with Milodon about the Ford part number and he said the Ford Deep Sump Pan and MoPar rear sump deep pan have the same part number which is 22040 this is for the Milodon REAR Sump 8 quart pan for B/RB. I filled the pan with 8 quarts of red dyed water to 'gauge' the distance of the oil in relationship to the windage tray and the rotating assembly. The water line was 3" below the oil pan top rail. With approx. 1 quart of oil in the filter and 7 quarts in the pan and 1 for the filter, and the fact that a running engine will have approx 2 quarts in the engine during operation, I will have plenty of oil to windage tray clearance. I could even run 6-7 quarts,(total) and be safe. Next up is the 440 source heads