Project 500 E-85 Flex Fuel E.F.I. Mega Squirt • 14 • The Dodge Challenger Message Board

by **Eddie** » 15 Aug 2008 12:56

Think of it as a an engine test mule carrier,(I dont have free access to a regular engine dyno so this will have to do, dyno shops charge almost a 1000.00 a day for tuning work)!!! :lol:

Yeah, it's hard NOT to laugh :biggrin:

by **Eddie** » 15 Aug 2008 13:04

Then the truck will go on here. I have unlimited free access to this equipment! This is a Superflow roll up rear wheel dyno, it's fully computerized, has a computer station and is brand new. :thumbsup:

It would look much better sitting between the fenderweels of any year challenger with stock aircleaner and 'Mondo' exhaust system, :wink:

by **dave-r** » 15 Aug 2008 14:41

This is all great stuff Eddie. :thumbsup:

Keep it coming.

by **drewcrane** » 15 Aug 2008 20:13

ya know ed im all for it , i think its cool!
that poor old sedated truck has no idea whats in for it!
its just an old relic of days gone by, and it will get the behemoth of an engine :s007:

by **fal308** » 16 Aug 2008 18:44

Does this mean you'll own another truck (God forbid...a D series :lol2:

) when you roast the driveline?
:thumbsup:

by jr » 17 Aug 2008 18:17

About fuel injection. There's commercial products, Megasquirt and new opensource one called FreeEMS. It's still far from finalized system but there's been some progress lately. Their goal is completely open EFI setup compared to Megasquirt that isn' exactly open nor free. Eddie you might be interested on it? Won't help you with this engine now but perhaps in future.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FreeEMS
http://www.diyefi.org/

by **Eddie** » 17 Aug 2008 19:04

jr wrote:About fuel injection. There's commercial products, Megasquirt and new opensource one called FreeEMS. It's still far from finalized system but there's been some progress lately. Their goal is completely open EFI setup compared to Megasquirt that isn' exactly open nor free. Eddie you might be interested on it? Won't help you with this engine now but perhaps in future.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FreeEMS
http://www.diyefi.org/

Thank you VERY much jr. :thumbsup:

I am going to finish up the shortblock this week, then order the PCM and some sensors. I'll post the pics of all this equipment as soon as I get it! :thumbsup:

I'll be purchasing my components for this engine from matt Cramer at www.diyautotune.com it will cost approx 787.00 for the PCM and some sensors and some wiring cables,(CanBus connector), Matt as always is extremely helpful and very knowledgeable : I'll be aquiring the MS-II 3.57 with EDIS option.(MS2357C) You can put this stuff together from scratch if you wish! But I'm not that smart or an electronincs geek!(Wish I was!) :lol:

by **Eddie** » 21 Aug 2008 21:25

Done. The piston deck height is .002 almost flat with the deck surface. I plan on using .038 Cometics or any size off the shelf near .040 which will be perfect for Quench and a high comp. ratio. There is no way it's going to be 9:6 to 1 as Dave first suggested. i think it's going to be around 11:00 to 1! I 'll pour both the chambers and the piston when I get back at school for a true comp. ratio after CCing. I had to move my stuff back at my shop due to space constarints. Thats what they told me even though they requested it in the first place.

My instructors are all much younger than me, damned kids. :lol:

by **Eddie** » 21 Aug 2008 21:28

It took all day to move all my stuff back home. :s019:

by **ianandjess** » 22 Aug 2008 1:03

i bet your getting anxious get it together & fire it up i know i would once i started putting it together
cheers ian

by **drewcrane** » 22 Aug 2008 17:27

man it looks like fine art, like jewelry, sweet ed! :thumbsup:

when you moved all that did your face look like this :p:

by **Eddie** » 22 Aug 2008 18:00

drewcrane wrote:man it looks like fine art, like jewelry, sweet ed! when you moved all that did your face look like this

Thanks Drew! Actually, the dudes I was with had the finest prescription narcotics money can buy legally. He had back surgery a few months prior, I didnt know it when he lifted it off my diesel truck, he has missed the last 2 days at school complaining of back pains. :lol:

by **Eddie** » 24 Aug 2008 1:48

Putting my wiring harness together for my ignition system. I'll need to solder the wiring together for the VR sensor and interface with the mega-squirt PCM with only 2 wires from the EDIS the Spout and PIP signals,(PIP and IDM wires will go to the megasquirt computer). Here's a diagram of the system. Disregard the EEC-IV module it wont be used. The Megasquirt will take it's place! :s016:

by **Eddie** » 24 Aug 2008 1:57

And here is the harness and EDIS computer or Module as Detroit calls it. It's very small and compact, 4"x6" and weighs less than 10 ounces and can produce way over 65k volts at the plugs! :s003:

The alluminum foil is for EMP protection from the Variable Reluctance Sensor.(Electromagnetic Pulse protection). The magnetic "pulses" are bad with the other wires jumbled up against each other and this prevents false readings or spikes to the computer,(s). :lol:

by **Eddie** » 24 Aug 2008 1:58

The EDIS itself, (the 8 stands for 8 cylinders, which is hard wired into the module, I get to play with the firing order via a window or menu on the Megasquirt computer connected to my laptop because it's currently programmed for a Ford 4.6 V-8 firing order) :lol:

by **drewcrane** » 24 Aug 2008 13:05

man you are a wiring guru if you can figure all that out,wow ed in sane, it would give me brain damage to do that stuff :s008:

by **Eddie** » 24 Aug 2008 13:54

Thanks Drew, but I am no guru, I only have to cut and splice 2 wires, the first 2, the hardest part I think will be adapting the trigger wheel or 'sandwiching it' between the Harmonic damper and the crankshaft pulley. I may have to machine the bolt semi flat, but with enough of a ridge to install and remove it and mount the trigger wheel that way? :lol:

by **Eddie** » 28 Aug 2008 17:09

Just placed my order for the electronics. Heres the list! If I get caught by the federal authorities I'll tell em I work for Dave Robson. :biggrin:

I'll post the hardeware pics as soon as I recieve them!!

by **Wojpi** » 29 Aug 2008 8:25

I am really impressed with your skills and knowledge. The progress you make is impresive, when i look at your engine i start to think that it will be this rare piece of art that is working aperfect. I have seen many mopar engines both in Europe and in US, but what i seen recently is beyond my understanding. We have received 517 Hemi from John Aruzza, engine was build to have 750 Hp and for street use. Belive me or not but i have never seen Mopar engine working so fine. After taking it out of crate and putting in the car, engine started from first crank, when it was cold was working steady, no smoke, no smell noothing, you can put a glass of water on the engine, its working like Jaguar V8, but when you step on the throtle then things start to happen. Edi i just wish you will have same results on your project. It is nicest thing to see sth like that working under MOPAR hood.

by **Eddie** » 29 Aug 2008 16:27

Thanks Wojpi, I hope it runs as good as your awesome Hemi! :lol:

by **Jimiboy** » 30 Aug 2008 4:29

Ed! I love to read about your continuing careful & solid progress, your work is amazing. It feels good knowing that friendly advises and help is available on this forum from professional guys like you. :thumbsup:

I look forward to see pic's of your engine beating up that dyno in that old pick up truck! :mrgreen:

by **Wojpi** » 30 Aug 2008 5:06

Edi unfortunaelly this hemi is not mine but my friends

but i am looking forward to see results of your project and maybe one day with your advices build my own one

by **Eddie** » 30 Aug 2008 15:43

Thanks guys. So far it's been pretty easy, just taking my time and checking everything out really well, measuring, and re-checking to make absolutely sure all was well. I think my greatest challenge is soon to come. I have been reading Ben Steins book on fuel mapping. It will be tedious but necessary to 'plot' each fuel map at each RPM cell. A cell is 100 RPM's. Then I have to figure out how the computer can interface 2 different fuel trims or adjustments based on how much alcohol percentage is in the gas/alcohol mix.(E-85 is 15% gasoline and 85% Ethanol alcohol), The info to the computer is given by the fuel comp. sensor. It lets the Comp. know via a square wave signal measured in hertz. 50-150 Hertz is the parameter of the sensor. The longer the time or how many hertz is produced determines the injector pulse width. Timing shouldnt change much maybe 4-8 degrees less with more alcohol. But befor I can do any of this I have to get my engine management harness together. Thankfully I have a few friends who are way more Electronically skilled than I. :lol:

Everything I learn will be passed on to my friends here on this board! Cant wait to get to the cylinder heads. Please guys if you see anything wrong or unusual tell me, I have already taken great advice from Fabian and Dave and this may have saved a great deal of downtime and money. :thumbsup:

Good to see you back Jimmy, where have you been? Chasing those lovely Swedish lasses!! :wink2:

by **fal308** » 30 Aug 2008 20:19

Eddie, what are you expecting you EGTs to be around?

by **Eddie** » 31 Aug 2008 1:15

fal308 wrote:Eddie, what are you expecting you EGTs to be around?

I really dont know Barc. I have been looking at exhaust gas analysis for Flex-Fuel vehicles and they show very low HC gas temps. This can mean only one thing, low combustion chamber temps. As the temp goes up in the chamber the HC count goes up and CO goes down. E-85 has the opposite effect of gasoline so I assume it burns much cooler from the data shown. I do know this. Keeping heat in the chamber has been a 'minor problem' to some racers making the switch from gasoline to E-85 but it's just until the engine gets up to operating temp.

by **Eddie** » 06 Sep 2008 15:17

This should excite all the electronic and computer geeks. It's a Mega-Squirt PCM with E-85 Flex Fuel sensor configuration pre-wired, I made sure and rubbed my shoes on the carpet before I touched the leads!LOL Pretty cool stuff, it uses the same 'chip' as in the high end units that cost 2-5 thousand dollars more. I cant wait to get my intake plumbed and the top end completed and start playing with the stimulator to test the circuits,(fuel,ignition, injector PW), before starting the engine., I think I will use a conventional dizzy and carby to break the engine in. This way if something happens and the tune is not correct, I wont wipe out my cam&lifters. It's up to me to install the correct ignition and fuel maps to keep the engine safely running for 30 minutes@2000-2500 RPM's, to break the engine in with single valve springs. To avoid this 'dilema' I think it would be wise to use a carb and distributor. Then after breakin, I can install this stuff. :thumbsup:

by **Eddie** » 06 Sep 2008 15:23

Here is the Ford EDIS,(Electroninc distributorless Ignition system), trigger wheel which differs greatly from my other wheel. This wheel has a smaller hole for easier mounting. The other used a press fit with an integral damper and pulley. It looks like a huge sawwheel! :lol:

by **fbernard** » 08 Sep 2008 8:03

airfuelEddie wrote: I think I will use a conventional dizzy and carby to break the engine in.

Wise move...

by **Eddie** » 22 Sep 2008 16:25

Here is where I am 'at' in regards to the electronics. There are still some things I dont fully understand yet. Like they shipped me a completed wiring harness, which is terrific, but where does the harness from the sensors, fuel pump, ignition system, and injectors, batt+, keyed 12 volt, ect go into to? I am also confused at to where the harness that was pre-assembled connects to the PCM but where does the other end connect to? I have been studying the Mega Manual at least 3 hours a day. The more I 'digest' the more I am confused. This wasnt going to be an easy part of the project and I was looking for a challenge,(No pun intended)LOL :lol:

Time to ask Matt a few questions,(Matt is form DIY auto tune).

by **Eddie** » 22 Sep 2008 16:31

The small board to the right is the stim board,(short for stimulator), this way I can 'test' the connections to power the PCM like the injectors, fuel pump, fiddle valve which I will not be using instead I am going to use a stepper IAC solenoid.) The other board is the power relay and protects the PCM from higher currents for the injectors, fuel pump, 12 volt battery power ect.. I have an 'eddie tool' on standby. I am an expert at the use of this tool. :