The Dodge Challenger Message Board

airfuelEddie wrote:Thanks guys but I had to tear it back down a bit, I think I didnt use enough RTV. I didnt place any on the sides or the bottom, both potential trouble areas for leakage. While removing the ret. I tore the O-rings on disassembly and have a new set arriving shortly from Mancini Racing. I want this plant to be leak free

I have my new set of O-Rings and will install them today in the retainer. But a lot of experienced engine builders are telling me I should offset the seal approx 1/8 of an inch or about 10 mm. To be honest this is the first time I have heard of this procedure. I usually place a dab of RTV at the seal 'joints' or parting lines. Of course, the last engine I rebuilt we used a rope seal. That got a lotta laughs. Directed at me of course. Hey those things worked man.

I recieved this in the mail today. It's the Variable reluctance sensor for the trigger wheel that Boost engineering forgot to send me.

I have discussed the Rear Seal 'Offset' with at least 4 pro engine builders and here's what they had to say about it. Hughes said it was a great idea but no more than 1/8-1/4" offset and NO RTV on or near that seal! Dave H. was adamant about that but I never used it. I let him talk. Muscle Motors said the same thing but also said they havent had a problem with the regular way either, of having the rear seal flush. A good friend who builds many racing engines said to do the offset and another said it doesnt matter cause the seal 'uses' vacum and oil to really make the 'seal' but it wouldnt hurt anything and might be a good idea. I went ahead and used a 1/4" offset as shown here. Hope it works OK, I hate leaks! I placed a very small dab near the block parting line and billet seal retainer. I also used brand new O-rings and seals. I also placed a small dab as Fabian suggested on the ret. ends, but a very small amount.

The retainer shows the 'offset' better. Observe the right hand corner and you can barely see the 'tail' of the seal sticking out a bit. Of course the lip goes towards the oil!

I cleaned the oil pan rail, layed on a smear of Black RTV MoPar adhesive/sealant then checked my shimpack again and mounted the Girdle. I also used Lock Tite Blue Medium on the oil pan studs.

Piston&Rod assembly complete. I used a small screwdriver dulled at the end with a small file so as not to gouge my pistons. The spiral spring steel retainers arent that bad if you pull them apart 1/2- 3/4" first then insert the end in the groove working around with the screwdriver and my fingernail. They must fully seat inside the groove on both ends with no compromise. If not seated fully they will surely work their way out and poof no engine, so it must be done right. I also noted valve orientation and radius of the rod end in regard to the crankshaft radius on the counterweight. In other words the rods that face each other dont have the radius, only the rod end that faces the counterweights. I double checked this because I wouldnt want to remove those spiral locks once installed. I would most likely damage the soft alluminum alloy of the pistons.

#2 Now just 7 more to complete

I've never used 'Quick Seat' on the cylinder walls before.(They recommend quick seat or wd-40) I always used tranny fluid and wiped it clean until there was nothing on the rag, then spray a light coat of WD-40 and oil the skirts and install. Anyone else have a similar or different way?

Done with the Piston&Rods. Ian take note, there is a small amount of alluminum at the wrist pin machining area. I think as the piston wrist pin boss is machined, it breaks through the other side and leaves a small sliver of allu. at the ring groove pin junction. I removed this on some when it was present. It wasnt on all of them only a few, it would surely break off during runnning operation so I removed it with my fingernail and smoothed them with a small file. The parts were very dirty, especially the wrist pins, inside they are tapered to reduce weight where needed but strong where the material is deemed necessary. It acted like a 'reservoir' for the metal shavings. I washed them out thoroughly. The rods were very dirty as well. All the parts look clean but needed cleaned!

Using a PowerHouse bore specific,(4.3750). tapered billet ring compressor the assembly slid in pretty easy with little violence. I am doing this for demo only. I am taking the engine to school in a few days to assemble it there and complete it there as well. My instructor at school asked if I could do it there for their Hi-Performance engine class and their Alternative fuel class as well. This will allow me access to the shop and more importantly the SuperFlow Flow bench for my intake and heads which will be 440source heads and an 383 Victor Single Plane with 1200 CFM four hole throttle body. A dual plane unless it's the INDY 440 dual plane which will not fit my block, I feel would be a 'restriction' at higher RPM's. More pics to follow soon.

440source heads,from what i hear those are alot of bang for the buck nice choice!

thanks for the info there eddie ill be sure to check all my parts carefully for cleanliness & small burs that will come off , are your heads out of the box or have you had any port work or other mods done im just going to use mine as they came straight out of the box for now anyway
cheers ian

Eddie what heat range spark plugs would you use with these stealth heads i am going to try NGK bp6es to start with i think they would be a reasonable point to start what would you think ill probably use 98 octane fuel
cheers ian

Ian, I am probably going to use NGK FR5 plugs that I have in my 440 6 pack. I think the NGK 'go' colder as the number increases which is opposite of everyone else, but those 6's you choose should be great for hard running. I had 7's in my Challenger and they fouled in less than 100 miles. Too Cold for my eds heads and my 6 pack tune,(68 primaries, 84 secondaries @ 12.9-13.1 AFR).... Run them for a while, pull them and try to see what they are 'doing' but it's going to be difficult to read them with alcohol and I'll have to rely on my Bosch Wide Band exhaust sensor on my 500 stroker project, to see if it's the right air/fuel ratio which will be around 9:1-10:1 AFR. Ethanol Alcohol with 15% gasoline is difficult to read on the plug insulator due to the lack of deposits. It burns very clean! I havent recieved my cylinder heads yet. I am going to buy them along with my computer this fall. 899.00 for the heads, 400.00 for the PCM,(Computer), I have to start assembling a Harness as well. When I get my heads I'll start the porting and post those progress pics and my results.

gday Eddie will you do the port work yourself or get a machine shop to do the work i did the work on a set of sml blk heads they look good but as yet i havent tested the motor to see how well it turned out but im confidenti will go well but ill leave the stealth heads stock until ive done a bit more practice & read, learned a bit more as i would hate to ruin a set of new heads but i think that as long as i dont get to carried away i would do a lot more good than harm
cheers ian

To be honest Ian I dont a damned thing about cylinder head porting. I have all this equipment at my disposal and want to learn. I am going to start by establishing a bseline with the heads stock. Then publish it here. Then start the cutting! Each mod I make I will let you guys know in a systematic order that hopefully can be duplicated by you or anyone with the grinding equipment and the nerve. I can than see if the mods are helping or hurting flow at all the different lift ranges. I want to develop the port so it flows fatter but not slower, velocity is everything, especially in a street engine. Most folks get hung up on peak numbers. All the research I have done is the mods done to the stealth and eds heads are substantial only at higher lifts. Simply backcutting the intake valve and opening up slightly the pushrod pinch gets you 80% of the way there. A fullyCNC ported set of either will net you 8-10% at lifts of .500-.700(Race Stuff)

thanks Eddie yes i was concerned about losing velocity thats why im going to put them on as they are for now if i do any thing it would only be a bowl blend & debur but the heads are assembled so ill use them as is
cheers ian

ianandjess wrote:thanks Eddie yes i was concerned about losing velocity thats why im going to put them on as they are for now if i do any thing it would only be a bowl blend & debur but the heads are assembled so ill use them as is
cheers ian

That would be perfect! Those 440source heads flow 290 out of the box! Like I said Ian it's a lot of work for 5-10% and only at lifts higher than .500 I am going to use a cam thats 530-560 with my 1.6 ratio rockers it should be very close to .600 good enough for what I am doing. I am going to still port them but not to the extent that I am disturbing low lift area under the curve type flow for upper lift gains.

I placed the shortblock on my Engine Dolly. It makes rolling it around the shop and transporting it to school easy. I put my old Sixpack oil pan on it to protect the 'innards'

Just lift it in the back of my pickem up truck and tie it down. Reminds me of when I use to date!

I can also hammer in that rear camshaft plug that I couldnt access on the stand!

This is how the ignition works. http://www.dainst.com/info/edis/edis.html Fabian take note The hardest part I see for the adaptation to a Mopar V-8 will be the wiring harness. The Mega squirt can be programmed for the different firing order.

airfuelEddie wrote:Fabian take note The hardest part I see for the adaptation to a Mopar V-8 will be the wiring harness.

Wiring is always easy under the hood. it's underdash wiring that gives me nightmares!

My new home. I first made sure the end gaps on the piston rings were placed around the piston circumference according to the ring manufacturers instructions to the letter. I sprayed WD-40 on the rings, and in the bores then oiled the skirts with diesel motor oil and installed the piston&rod on the 1&2 rod journal, careful to note the cap placement and bearing placement in the rod. It can be installed the wrong way. Rods were installed at .0075, I had to use an extension on the end of the wrench and carefully apply the torque in order to achieve that number. I had to have an assistant hold the gauge in order to center it in the nipple on the end of the fastner, which is machined into the center for that very purpose but holding the gauge and placing the torque is a job for 3 hands.

My new home.

Rod bearing clearance was .002, side clearance was a bit high at .012 but nothing to worry about.

This is where it will go when done to break-in and check for leaks as well as some programming and wiring, lots of blessed wiring. . I cant wait to rattle the windows in the bank across the street from us!!

My instructor who is thankfully a rabid mopar maniac, yes worse than I but it has it's advantages. He gave me this beast to put the engine into, at least to rear wheel dyno it and load the fuel/ignition load maps to tune it. trust me it wont stay in there! I already have enough money pits!

a hh man id like to see that sled do a burn out at least!

man im still lmao at that truck!