The Dodge Challenger Message Board

Thanks Dave.

So shiny...they look mean and clean!!

wow you are really putting your heart into this engine eddie is quite inspiring & very interesting thats for sure
cheers ian

Gotta have H2O though,yea it does keep you alive,and you will need to drink lots of it to assemble that bad boy man those are some trick looking pistons, very light weight!

Thanks guys, I'll post the pics of the ignition system as soon I recieve it. In the meantime I'm going to final assemble the girdle and re-check the clearances under the studs. I'll post pics of that as well.

Still waiting on my ignition system in the meantime, here is the rear main seal reatiner. It's the new billet piece that all the fancy magazine builds have been using so a year ago when I bought this I thought cool, no silicone/double o-ringed! They want you to use adhesive/sealer as per the old retainer It is very nice though and fits very well, it comes with 2 guide stude to ensure perfect alignment, and of course I installed the sharp edge of the lower/upper seal towards the crankcase.

The studs they provide to guide the ret. in place then replace with 12 point indexed fasteners.

I stretched the o-rings into position then pressed them into place on the ret. I had to use a smear of lubriplate because the fit was so tight and I didnt want to tear the o-rings. It fits very nice and should seal like a vault.

Next I performed a final check of the shim pack that the girdle is placed upon. I found a better way. Take the washers which is your shim pack and see if they can spin freely below the machinists level while taking up all the space below it but not pushing it "up" from the oil pan deck. If they spin with very little drag you are cool.

Next up is to ensure the oil pan rail is absolutely clean of oil and assembly lube. I "schmeared",(Yiddish for smeared)LOL) some Black MoPar Silicone/Adhesive very SPARINGLY on the rail. You dont want to 'glob' it on. You also dont want that stuff in your oil galleys.

another

I also had to take a carbide bit and enlarge the rear girdle oil pan holes to accomodate the studs to the rear oil pan rail a bit. maybe a 1/16" at the rear of the stud. It clears fine now and I filed it to prevent galling the the threads. The girdle fits very snug and must be placed on evenly to fit over the studs and mains, it's a precise fit with no 'play' between them. I torqued the girdle to 75 lb. ft. in 3 steps(25,50,75), I also checked all counterweight clearance and had at least .030 so it kinda helps like an oil scraper, although scrapers are much closer than that. I got this for strength!

All done. Except for the pistons&rods, cam, valvetrain, injectors ect ect ect My 6 Qt. 440SixPack Oil Pan for 'demo'.

looking good eddie ive been thinking that a girdle might be good insurance for my build to i hadnt planed on it but its not a big expence but it sure strengthens the bottom end cheers for the informative posts eddie
cheers ian

Awesome, Eddie! Wish I had you for a neighbor. I'd let you rebuild my 340, for a project! I'd even let you give it a Stroke!

Thanks guys but I had to tear it back down a bit, I think I didnt use enough RTV. I didnt place any on the sides or the bottom, both potential trouble areas for leakage. While removing the ret. I tore the O-rings on disassembly and have a new set arriving shortly from Mancini Racing. I want this plant to be leak free

patrick wrote:Awesome, Eddie! Wish I had you for a neighbor. I'd let you rebuild my 340, for a project! I'd even let you give it a Stroke!

I'll stroke and poke your engine anyday Pat! It would be loved but not molested

airfuelEddie wrote:Thanks guys but I had to tear it back down a bit, I think I didnt use enough RTV.

Funny, I did the same thing (tore it back down a bit, used a second set of O-rings).
Don't shy on the RTV on the girdle, either that or the rear main seal is still seeping a little oil on my engine. Most likely the girdle though.

fbernard wrote:

airfuelEddie wrote:Thanks guys but I had to tear it back down a bit, I think I didnt use enough RTV.

Funny, I did the same thing (tore it back down a bit, used a second set of O-rings).
Don't shy on the RTV on the girdle, either that or the rear main seal is still seeping a little oil on my engine. Most likely the girdle though.

Good advice. Thanks Fabian! I'll use the RTV on all mating surfaces. (BTW, I checked UPS and my ignition is in route and should be here by tomm. I cant wait to play with the damned thing)

ianandjess wrote:looking good eddie ive been thinking that a girdle might be good insurance for my build to i hadnt planed on it but its not a big expence but it sure strengthens the bottom end cheers for the informative posts eddie
cheers ian

Thanks Ian. Are you using the stock main caps as I am? Or are you going with the superstrong billet main caps?

gday eddie ill just be using stock caps im sure they will be fine with a girdle i think billet cap would be a bit overkill im only hoping for 550hp at the most probably wont make that but as im still new to big blocks im only guessing
cheers ian

It is not the strength of the billet caps that is important.

The softer material absorbs shock and vibrations better so they are less inclined to "walk" among other things. So the bearings stay aligned better.

I would be tempted to use them if I were doing this again. In particular if I wanted much more than 500hp or if I wanted to rev the engine much over 6000rpm.

The other alternative used to be to "4-bolt mains" them. But I am hearing these days that this weakens the bottom of the B/RB block and actually makes things worse!

Check out this cap and girdle combo.

http://www.bcrproducts.com/caps_and_girdle_system.html

I agree with Dave. I think the addition of 4-bolt main caps might weaken the block, especially at the main cap axis. This guy doesnt seem to think so however. http://www.dvorakmachine.com/4boltconversion.shtml And his system is obviously permanent due to the Block sides being "opened up", but he does have a lot of racing experience in Stock Eliminator dating back to the early 60's. That BCR combo sure looks sweet!`

What do you guys think of cross-bolted mains. (or even the LS1s [?] 6 bolt mains?

fal308 wrote:What do you guys think of cross-bolted mains. (or even the LS1s [?] 6 bolt mains?

They are the best. All aftermarket Nascar and what I have seen in F-1 or V-8 endurance engines are all cross bolted. I think all Nitromethane blocks are cross bolted too Barc..Every auto manufacturer usually comes up with a 'gadget' thats well... sweet! This is a Ford EDIS-8 ignition system. This is all thats required too produce a 65k volt spark at the plugs, it will,(I hope), interface with the MegaSquirt PCM,(Computer), with a SAW signal,(Spark angle word), from the trigger wheel minus one tooth, it sends one signal, the SAW to the MS. The MS sends a PIP,(Profile Ignition Pickup), back to the EDIS. The EDIS calibrates the spark plus advance to the coil pack and fires it. Without the trigger wheel signal it automatically advances the timing 10 degress all the time so this can be used for "limp home" mode. With the trigger wheel signal the VR sensor sends the SAW signal to the MS PCM. It's pretty much fail proof and very simple. It's technically called a waste spark system because it fires two different spark plugs at the same time. On B/RB MoPar the firing order would be 18436572 correct? So the companion cylinders firing order would be those pistons on the exhaust cycle that recieve the spark. I figured it to be 1&6 are companions then 8&5 4&7 and finally 3&2 pretty slick huh! Since the companion cylinder recieving the wasted spark is on an exhaust stroke there is very little pressure in that cylinder with the exhaust valve open. This has no effect on the engines running operation.

I think I'm missing the VR sensor however, I called Boost to see what the deal is. Here are the individual components. Coil packs there are 2 with four plugs per coil pack so all eight are used by these 2. These have a very high reliability rate as does the whole system actually, which is why I am using it. Where do guys think I should mount the coil packs? With no dizzy the front of the engine will have ample space or on top the valve covers might be cool.

Yeah, I was correct. It's missing the Variable Reluctance sensor. I contacted Boost and they are sending me one as we speak!!Cool!!

Playing with Pistons. The oil ring pack is 4 rings. The spacer goes in dimple down towards the crankshaft at the wrist pin centerline. The oil ring expander goes in next and has to go in first, no other way, then the rings around the expander. Good lighting is a must as it becomes difficult to see the gaps,(Old age), , which I oriented according to the instructions, down to the letter. The 10.00 dollar expander I purchased form PowerHouse tools is very effective at preventing gouging the pistons as the sharp rings are spiraled onto the piston. I just sqeeze and place. The 2nd ring goes in next after the oil ring stack then the top compression ring goes in last. A set of sharp dental picks aids when the ring accidently goes into the wrong groove!LOL